Burning Muhammed in Effigy?!?!?!

[Adrian II]

Quite hard to swallow, but you're right: "I disaprove your views, but I would fight for you to be able to express them" (Help me Louis, I don't remember who said that: was it Montesquieu?)

Voltaire.

And yeah, they may be neo-nazis which is unpalatable to me too, but freedom of expression represents a greater value than Adrian's aesthetic sensitivities.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Dare I even say it?

Something's rotten in the State of Denmark

I'm sorry but that's the price you have to pay for my freedom of speech...i'll leave now

[HoreTore]

Nobody knows what nationality they are, right? And as far as I understand the text isn't fascist either. But boy, wouldn't it be convenient if they were neo-nazis.

The text greatly resembles previous statements by scandinavian nazi's, the form, words and feel used is the one the nazi's here use. So, I'll bet my money on neo-nazi's.

[Strike For The South]

Voltaire.

Je ne suis pas d'accord avec ce que vous dites, mais je me battrai jusqu'à la mort pour que vous ayez le droit de le dire. A brilliant mind at his most brilliant.

Hey everything sounds better in English Frenchie

[Louis VI the Fat]

[Tribesman]

BTW, I'm fairly sure they are the kind of people who would have burnt Jews' shops back in the 1930's-1940's. Cowardness, racism, sillyness : a good first step for fascist wannabes.

Hold on there Meneldil , apparently comparing idiot fascists with idiot fascists is a typical ad-hominen......in some peoples books anyway

[HoreTore]

Hold on there Meneldil , apparently comparing idiot fascists with idiot fascists is a typical ad-hominen......in some peoples books anyway

I don't see why that is funny, I see no similarity between those two.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Del Arroyo]

I really wish people would find a way to de-religify the current cultural clash in Europe. This has nothing to do with anyone's prophets.

I do, however, feel that the fight for freedom of expression in Europe is worth it at any cost.

And, to add a bit of perspective-- yes, people of diverse national, political, and religious backgrounds in the Muslim world do burn effigies of Bush, Blair, and flags of certain countries like the US and Israel. But they would never burn Jesus or Moses.

[master of the puppets]

HEY IS THAT A RIOT!!!

no wait... it's only a tumbleweed, you'd think that by now the islamic extremists would be able to leap into action anytime but...

[Strike For The South]

[Hosakawa Tito]

^^^ nice mullet ^^^

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Muslim world do burn effigies of Bush, Blair, and flags of certain countries like the US and Israel. But they would never burn Jesus or Moses.

Reality check tiime

Any Idea what this is?


The tomb of the 14th cenutry Saint Joanikije of Devic was broken, marble slabs taken away, and the relics set on fire. The entire chapel at the monastery of Devic was burned with all frescoes.

I suppose none of those were of Jesus or Moses.

Albania : Muslims Torch Churches , Hate Christ

"East Timor remained largely unreported throughout the 80's and most of the 90's. A Christian land ravaged by Muslims - nobody cared. Untold crimes have been committed in the Chittagong Hill Tracts of Bangladesh against the Chakmas, and yet how often is the conflict reported? - never!," a believer noted in despair.

Over 150 churches and monasteries in Kosovo, Serbia have been destroyed or seriously damaged over the last 6 years. Now authorities project to turn the hull of one sanctuary into a nightclub. The Church of Christ the Savior in Pristina has been turned into public toilet.

Muslims burn others’ mosques in sectarian wars. But Muslims also burn Christian churches



However, not much media attention focuses on the leveling of Christian sanctuaries. After all, it’s just a "Christian story." However, the latest mosque burnt to the ground gets plenty of newsfeed with narrative and copious photographs.

Why?

While we attempt to answer that needling question, note that in Kosovo Province, scene after scene of heartbreak spikes the believers' hearts as they wake up to cinders for a Christian church. It is unprecedented in that area.

"I have a feeling that we are really going to pay from the nose for turning the cradle of Serbian Orthodoxy into an abomination of desolation," one observed.

These sanctuaries have been scorched, not in time of battle, but five years after the media-saturated conflict. Nuns are left to live in burnt out boxcars. The Christian hallowed places have been sent into oblivion while UN protectorates are on site along with 18,000 NATO militia designated.

LINK

How can you make such an obviously false statement. I suppose they dont destroy statues of Buddah either. But they make a fuss over drawing Mohamed.

They just burn down the entire church. I suppose they could go in and remove all the pictures of Jesus or Moses but what do you think the chances of that are?

[Xiahou]

HEY IS THAT A RIOT!!!

no wait... it's only a tumbleweed, you'd think that by now the islamic extremists would be able to leap into action anytime but...

Meh, it'd take awhile before anything would happen. An obscure video like that needs to be found by the right kooks before it can become international news.

Of course, the right response would be exactly what's happening right now- nothing.

[HoreTore]

How can you make such an obviously false statement. I suppose they dont destroy statues of Buddah either. But they make a fuss over drawing Mohamed.

I assume he was talking about things burning during riots, ie. not in looting/wartime, where every religion/group of whatever focus on destroying all enemy icons of any kind. If the enemy is an opposing muslim faction and you're a different kind of muslim, you still burn his heathen/infidel/blasphemous mosque. If he's a different kind of christian than your own christianity, you still burn his heathen/infidel/blasphemous church to ground. If you're a marxist-leninist, you burn all of it. If you intend to kill a leninist, you topple his 100 foot statue.

It's an effective war/oppression-strategy, nothing else. However, when protesting against foreign powers in a at least semi-diplomatic fashion(I count rioting as a semi), then other rules apply.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The tomb of the 14th cenutry Saint Joanikije of Devic was broken, marble slabs taken away, and the relics set on fire. The entire chapel at the monastery of Devic was burned with all frescoes.

I suppose none of those were of Jesus or Moses. How can you make such an obviously false statement. I suppose they dont destroy statues of Buddah either. But they make a fuss over drawing Mohamed.

They just burn down the entire church. I suppose they could go in and remove all the pictures of Jesus or Moses but what do you think the chances of that are?

Gawain:

I'm not much of an Islamist fan either but....

I think it's a little hard to "judge" all of Europe by the activities of pretty much any of the factions in the Southern Balkans. That region has been something of a basket case since the 1200's.

[Don Corleone]

Gawain:

I'm not much of an Islamist fan either but....

I think it's a little hard to "judge" all of Europe by the activities of pretty much any of the factions in the Southern Balkans. That region has been something of a basket case since the 1200's.

No fair bringing reason and rationed responses into this...

Honestly, is anybody actually defending the guys that set Mohammed on fire and said these hateful things? I mean, defend their right to say them, sure, goes without saying. But is anybody taking offense when the 'free-speakers' are subjected to a 'free-speech-rebuttal'? I mean, if you want to say racist things, be my guest, but don't be surprised when you get called on it.

To the Muslim visitors in the Backroom, LEN et. al., please accept my apologies on behalf of whatever white-pseudo-Christian nutjobs were behind the masks on that video. They have not adopted the message of Christ nor do they represent a plurality opinion. We humor them, as we have found this is the best way to diffuse their moblike mentality, but by no means do we endorse these sentiments (well, most of us don't). As-salaamu Alaikum, and thank you for your patience.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

No fair bringing reason and rationed responses into this...

Honestly, is anybody actually defending the guys that set Mohammed on fire and said these hateful things? I mean, defend their right to say them, sure, goes without saying. But is anybody taking offense when the 'free-speakers' are subjected to a 'free-speech-rebuttal'? I mean, if you want to say racist things, be my guest, but don't be surprised when you get called on it.

To the Muslim visitors in the Backroom, LEN et. al., please accept my apologies on behalf of whatever white-pseudo-Christian nutjob was behind the masks on that video. They do not represent a plurality. We humor them, as we have found this is the best way to diffuse their moblike mentality, but by no means do we endorse these sentiments (well, most of us don't). As-salaamu Alaikum, and thank you for your patience.

Amen I say to you, Amen.

Though I should not that your own stop sign should be reflexively applied.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think it's a little hard to "judge" all of Europe by the activities of pretty much any of the factions in the Southern Balkans. That region has been something of a basket case since the 1200's

Whos judging all of Europe he made a silly statement. That they dont burn these pictures. And dont tell me its limited to this.

Wahabbis destroy Muslim holy sites

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE MOUNT ANTIQUITIES

Does this sound familiar.

The 53-meter (175-foot) tall, 2000-year-old Buddha statue located in Bamyan, about 150 kilometers (90 miles) west of the Afghan capital Kabul, is shown in November 28, 1997, file photo. Afghanistan's hardline Taliban rulers ordered the destruction, Monday of all statues as insulting Islam, including this, the world's tallest standing Buddha statue which was already damaged in fighting. The Taliban said they began to destroy the statues

Muslim Youths Destroy 10 Nigerian Churches

Malaysian Government Demolished Church Building

Churches in Global-South faces persecution.

Need I continue.?

[Don Corleone]

Whos judging all of Europe he made a silly statement. That they dont burn these pictures. And dont tell me its limited to this.

Wahabbis destroy Muslim holy sites

THE DESTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE MOUNT ANTIQUITIES

Does this look familiar.



Muslim Youths Destroy 10 Nigerian Churches

Malaysian Government Demolished Church Building

Churches in Global-South faces persecution.

Need I continue.?

So some radical extremists in Islam defaced some Christian, Muslim and Buddhist symbols, and you think that means Christians should respond by defacing some Islamic symbols and prove that they can be every bit as whacked out as the fringe elements in Islamic society?

Hmm... .... what is it about two wrongs again....

I didn't think you were Christian, anyway. Why are you so offended?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

So some radical extremists in Islam defaced some Christian, Muslim and Buddhist symbols, and you think that means Christians should respond by defacing some Islamic symbols and prove that they can be every bit as whacked out as the fringe elements in Islamic society?

Some ? Its practiced by them around the world for centuries and it was far worse back then. Look what they did to Jerusalem.

Honestly, is anybody actually defending the guys that set Mohammed on fire and said these hateful things?

Amen I say to you, Amen.

You two can climb down off your high horses now. I made it perfectly clear why I posted this. I think these guys are idiots as well. I dont think any reigious icons of any faith should be disrespected in that manner. It seems however that Muslims do this quite often. More often than others.

I didn't think you were Christian, anyway. Why are you so offended?

Offended?

Besides I showed you instances where they have desicrated almost every great religion on earth including their own.

Hmm... .... what is it about two wrongs again....

Neither do 1000

I must add this deeply saddens me I thought you knew me better than to accuse me of defending these people. I know this is the backroom but really. I can take it from the left but again this hurts.

[Tristuskhan]

Some ? Its practiced by them around the world for centuries and it was far worse back then. Look what they did to Jerusalem.

Hum, the sack of Jerusalem was a crusader act, as far as I know. Crusaders killing everyone including christians, up to the church of Saint Sepulcre (don't know how to spell it in english). When Salah-ad-din took the city back it was almost peaceful compared to this slaughter. Open your history books Gawain!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Hum, the sack of Jerusalem was a crusader act, as far as I know.

I never said Christians were saints either. And that was a holy war on both sides. And Saladin was not your average Muslim. You do notice however how carefully we avoid damaging Mosques.

[master of the puppets]

Honestly, is anybody actually defending the guys that set Mohammed on fire and said these hateful things? I mean, defend their right to say them, sure, goes without saying. But is anybody taking offense when the 'free-speakers' are subjected to a 'free-speech-rebuttal'? I mean, if you want to say racist things, be my guest, but don't be surprised when you get called on it.

well Corleone if it were just extremists butting heads with extremists no one would care. but when one extremist burns down some innocent mans business or blows himself up killing many then it becomes everyones problem. I don't say that they did not have the right to expression, i'm saying they were irrasponsable with that right and may have put many in danger.

as to why muslims target religion... isn't it obvious? For centuries islamic nations have been theocracies and the main religion pervaded every aspect of the citizens lives. so why should insults be different? Also if a theocracy is threatened by a opposing religion it is also a political battle.

[Xiahou]

And, to add a bit of perspective-- yes, people of diverse national, political, and religious backgrounds in the Muslim world do burn effigies of Bush, Blair, and flags of certain countries like the US and Israel. But they would never burn Jesus or Moses.

Probably because Jesus and Moses are both holy figures under Islam as well, no?
However, they have burned the Pope, for example, in effigy. I'm not sure if you were trying to make the claim or not, but many Muslims, and certainly the more extremist ones don't typically show the same respect for other religions in their own country than what is afforded their religion in traditionally Christian countries.

I'm sure this will be taken as a bash by someone, but how in many Muslim countries is it outright illegal to convert to Christianity- and in how many "Christian" countries is the opposite illegal? You can talk about extremists on both sides, but in general, you're going to find "Christian" countries are far more tolerant of Muslims than the reverse.

I don't know if that's what Gawain was trying to get it- but I would agree with that much at least.

[Tribesman]

I'm sure this will be taken as a bash by someone, but how in many Muslim countries is it outright illegal to convert to Christianity- and in how many "Christian" countries is the opposite illegal? You can talk about extremists on both sides, but in general, you're going to find "Christian" countries are far more tolerant of Muslims than the reverse.

Yep , but it was not always so . Christianity used to have lots of convert or die and die you unchristian christian stuff , some good old church burnings and all that, it has in the main settled down now .
Islam like Christianity is constantly changing , the current schism with the fundies is just like Luther , they will get over it .

[Xiahou]

Yep , but it was not always so . Christianity used to have lots of convert or die and die you unchristian christian stuff , some good old church burnings and all that, it has in the main settled down now .
Islam like Christianity is constantly changing , the current schism with the fundies is just like Luther , they will get over it .

And they're fairly criticized on these points until they do finally "get over it". Again, people point to extremists on both sides, but it's hard to ignore the fact that, right now, Muslim extremists are more prolific, more violent, and more accepted by their mainstream than their Christian counterparts.

This doesn't make Islam a "bad" religion, per se- but there are definitely a lot of big problems that need sorting out.

[Papewaio]

Voltaire.

A truly great person... croissants, movies and coffee another thing I like about the French is some of the most brilliant philosophers and scientists.

Oh, truffles too...

[Tribesman]

This doesn't make Islam a "bad" religion, per se- but there are definitely a lot of big problems that need sorting out.

Yep problems , but how often in a simple forum like this do you see the fundy nutcases views being attributed to the whole religeon and all of its flavours ?

[Proletariat]

Yep problems , but how often in a simple forum like this do you see the fundy nutcases views being attributed to the whole religeon and all of its flavours ?

Not often. Who're the people you're thinking of in the backroom that 'attribute the fundy nutcase view to the whole religion and all it's flavors?' I can think of one or two maybe, but it's seldom, imo.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I don't know if that's what Gawain was trying to get it- but I would agree with that much at least.

Im not defending them or saying two wrongs make a right. But dont you see the irony here?

And again I also support free speech. Even if I think what their saying or doing is deplorable.