Hayasdan Questions (and some general ones)

[Follow]

I think I might be missing some patches or hotfixes, but I'm not sure which or where. I'm into the game to about 247 BC now, and I have yet to see a single mercenary unit of any kind available in the Hayasdan territories. I know that in other territories they exist (because I get attacked by huge stacks of them every turn), but not in mine at all. The only place I can get troops are from my cities.

Is there a patch I'm missing that this is supposed to come with? Maybe I've forgotten to turn something on somewhere? I can't even hire a goatherder in my lands. ;)

Second, I'm curious if anyone has played as Hayasdan since the newest version of EB, a new game, not a continuation. I'm playing (or rather trying to), but I'm constantly in the stone age. It's not a gripe necessarily, and I can understand if this is intentional, but I wonder if this much aggression is actually intentional. I fight multiple stacks of armies each turn, which in itself isn't so bad and I can understand the constant onslaught against Hayasdan. But when I win these battles (I think I'm 60+ in the wins and 2 losses so far), I win very decisively. I fight much larger armies, and take less than 10% (on average, sometimes worse sometimes better) casualties than I inflict. But even doing all of that, I don't have the money to make new armies, mines, take cities, or anything else. The Saurmatae are generally kept under control with just the governers in my towns riding out for a minute to scare them off. The Seleukids alone are keeping me in the stone age. It's all I can do to keep my units replenished and paid. I own 6 territories and make around 500 or so Mnai per turn. I have no money to upgrade cities.

Where do they keep getting new family members? I kill off one or so per turn, destroy entire stacks of armies, and there is another stack (of more advanced units usually) with a new family member leader within just a few turns. All of their family members also have a large number of stars right away (I wonder how that's possible with the way they fight...).

Also, they keep paying me for a ceasefire, and then breaking the ceasefire the same turn they pay me to stop attacking them. They're at war with every nation and their dogs (and I'm allied with many of those nations, including Rome and Greek Cities, but they don't help at all), but still have enough armies to lose a stack per turn to me while fighting these rich nations.

Again, don't take this as a gripe, and "working as intended" is a perfectly acceptable answer for me to move on, but I'm curious if it's supposed to be like this. I'm considering a restart to see if I can do anything differently in the earlier stages that will prevent the quagmire I seem to be in now. I think I might be able to play hit and run tactics (which seem kind of like cheating) by running into a town, salvaging all their buildings, letting the computer take it back (rebuilding everything instantly according to some of the messages I've read on this board), then take it again and destroy, rinse and repeat.




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[bovi]

There is no patch or fix for mercenaries. Some lands are devoid of mercs while others are overflowing with them, we may change this at some point. Possibly the Seleucids are hiring all your prospective mercs too.

Seleucids will get a lot of family members as they have a lot of territories. They will adopt like crazy if you kill enough to go below what the game thinks is suitable for an empire of its size.

Unfortunately nothing can be done about stupid diplomatic AI. Take their payment and smile . Even if they are at war elsewhere, it will focus on the human player, also something which cannot be changed.

Raiding the enemy and sending loads of spies to make their cities rebel are valid strategies. The AI gets a government building placed for free, nothing more, so you'll have reduced a lot of their capability if you raze one of their main settlements, it will take many years before that one is back up where it used to be. Feel free to bypass some less important settlements on the way.

Edit: Forgot, Hayasdan is among the hardest factions, and I believe a tough challenge for anyone. There is no shame in defeat. Haven't played them myself.

[Follow]

I'm finally building my first mine, so maybe this thread was a little premature. I'll have to see what can be done after that is built. Right now, I have a large army of Sauromatae knocking at my back door that I could take if my armies weren't busy guarding the south from the Seleucids. What worries me about the army is that there are 9 or so horse-archer units (and nothing else). Their normal stack of 4 horse-archers and a general is pretty easily beat with a cavalry charge from my generals alone. Now I'm sitting there defenseless with this huge horse-archer army coming for me and wondering how I'm going to stop them without giving some ground up to Seleukeia...

I've had a lot of fun playing, but it's been pretty skin of my teeth survival from one season to the next. I like that sort of thing, but with 2 stacks of Seleucids in my territory (though not laying seige just yet), another 4 standing right at the borders, and the stack of Sauromatae (who won't even talk about a ceasefire no matter what is on the table), I think my campaign might be coming to an end. I've looked for Hayasdan tactics threads, but haven't found any. Are there any threads about this stuff?




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[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I'm currently playing a Hayasdan campaign. (I'm use an altered money script, though. And this helps greatly to reduce the crazy amount of stacks the Seleucids throw at you.) The key to Hayasdan is to build mines. Don't build anything unnessecary until you have at least the first level of mine in each town. I managed to get a guy who had about +50% increase in mining income from all of this traits and ancillaries, so when I upgraded that settlement's mine, I was able to build some horsearchers and counter the Seleucids.

Another good way to fight them is to make an anti-Seleucid alliance. Ally with Pontus, Ptolemai, Saba, whichever WGreek is at war with them, and try to get Baktria and Parthia to side with you instead of the Seleucids. If they have no friends, and are fighting on multiple fronts, they will be weakened. Also try to keep Sauromatae as your friends so you don't have to fight a two front war.

I have rebuilt the Persian Empire with Hayasdan without cheating (unless you consider altered money scripts cheating). So, they aren't impossible, just difficult...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Follow]

I don't think I had a choice with Sauromatae. I certainly didn't attack them, I think they either started as being at war with me, or declared war on me VERY early into the game. I haven't built anything uneccesary (or really anything at all), I have government buildings in a few towns, river ports, and roads (basically anything to make money). The rest of my money goes directly into building troops where needed, or replenishing lost numbers in units.




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[mlp071]

They start at war with you. I am playing Sauromatae campaign , and Hai accepted ceasefire right away, should work vice versa also . As long you don't border with them in early turns they will agree on that .

Only problem is that Sauromatae really like Kotais.

+++EDIT: if you manage to get alliance with them at same time when you get ceasefire , they will leave you alone for awhile.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Yeah, try to get that alliance.

And don't bother replacing your loses. This can be one of the most costly things in an early campaign. Part of the early profit comes from having depleted units that no longer require full upkeep. (Though, that is a whole lot easier said than done if Seleucia won't leave you alone.)

[KARTLOS]

are you playing on vh vh? i havent had any problems with the sauromatae.

the selucids are troubelsome though, i initially alled with every place i could send diplomats to and set about taking the nearby rebel states. then the selucids declared war on me and i have never attempted to make peace.
they have been my only enemy thus far. i have managed to take nearlly all turkey minus a makedonian and ptolmy province. and i have nearrly taken the selucids persian provinces.
money can be tight, but as previoulsy suggested you have to be patient and concentrate on mine development.

[Sarkiss]

i struggled as Armenia, experienced something very similar to what Follow described... at the end just grown tired of a stone age and countless Seleucid stacks, and their new family members who tend to attack with all mercenary armies. what i'd suggest is to definitely try money script or play on H campaign.
VH is a bit too overwhelming, and even H difficulty dont stop them from hiring full stacks of mercenaries, but does however tone them down a bit.
also there is a problem with Hayasdan in current build: cataphracts aren't available and afaik elite spearmen's status isnt right.
waiting for a next build to start over their never-ending struggle

[Follow]

Maybe the issue is Kotais, I took that pretty early on. It's a port town, and I really needed a port! I've tried turn after turn (after killing a countless hoard of their family members) to have a ceasefire with them, but nothing. Even Seluekia talks peace for very (and I stress VERY) short periods of time, but the Sauromatae will have absolutely NONE of it.

I'm playing on the recommended VH/M settings. I think maybe the error made was taking Kotais early on because I wanted a port. The game even tried to warn me; every time I would attack the damn town, a hidden army would come and overwhelm me until I ran away (both of my losses were taking that town around the 10th turn). I just came back with enough force to kill both armies so I could have my port! Bad idea I guess, heed the gods and all that. ;)




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[Veris]

Don't even bother trying to make sense with RTW diplomacy. Just dl the Forced Diplomacy mod by Jarado and your life will be much easier. It made playing as Bactria fun when I chose not to destroy the Seleucids immediately, since otherwise they would never have let up. Money scripts are nice too, and you can tweak them to your own likings if needed.

[artavazd]

where do i get the money script?


when i plays as hayasdan i have about 6-8 units of the ayrudzi (javelin cav) i deplete my javelins, then isolate a unit and charge it with all of my cav units. I use the jav cav over the horse archers, because they pack a bigger punch when charging

[mlp071]

where do i get the money script?

This is the latest one :

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=87649


and you can find some older ones in here :

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=83349

[Sarkiss]

Don't even bother trying to make sense with RTW diplomacy. Just dl the Forced Diplomacy mod by Jarado

where can i find it?

[Ludens]

where can i find it?

Link.

[KARTLOS]

Maybe the issue is Kotais, I took that pretty early on. It's a port town, and I really needed a port! I've tried turn after turn (after killing a countless hoard of their family members) to have a ceasefire with them, but nothing. Even Seluekia talks peace for very (and I stress VERY) short periods of time, but the Sauromatae will have absolutely NONE of it.

I'm playing on the recommended VH/M settings. I think maybe the error made was taking Kotais early on because I wanted a port. The game even tried to warn me; every time I would attack the damn town, a hidden army would come and overwhelm me until I ran away (both of my losses were taking that town around the 10th turn). I just came back with enough force to kill both armies so I could have my port! Bad idea I guess, heed the gods and all that. ;)




Follow :)

well i did pretty much the same thing, kotais was one of my first targets and i havent been experiencing the same problems as you.

i did negotiate an alliance with the sauromatai as soon as i could though

[Follow]

well i did pretty much the same thing, kotais was one of my first targets and i havent been experiencing the same problems as you.

i did negotiate an alliance with the sauromatai as soon as i could though

I can't even so much as negotiate a ceasefire with them. They won't talk to my diplomat at all, for anything. I have rarely crossed their border with an army (besides to hunt certain family members of theirs that have attacked my cities), but never unjustified hostility. I have killed a whole lot of their family members who have seiged my cities, so maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe you earn a little rage from a faction each time you kill one of their family members? Whether it was justified or wasn't?

I haven't played for a little while, otherwise I would post what has happened next in my game. Soon I will though.




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[innocex]

thanks for the links to the money and forced diplomacy mods, i am having the same problem with hayasdan, im beating the brains in of my neighbors but im constantly too poor to expand and capture their cities.

does anyone know if there is a thread about a hayasdan walkthrough?

[mlp071]

I have killed a whole lot of their family members who have seiged my cities, so maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe you earn a little rage from a faction each time you kill one of their family members? Whether it was justified or wasn't?

I found that AI will really got on you, if you kill their Family members , specially Leader or Heir, plus they do not like you encroaching into their teritory at all.

I guess you are stuck with only 1 option now, to destroy them or be destroyed.

[Hegix]

I'm currently playing a Hai campaign and I managed to survive through the early years. I've noticed though that I cant build sewers in my cities. It's there on the building browser, and I have the trader lvl market. All my cities are capping growth around 5k ppl, this cant be right.

edit: I did some searching in the files, found out that romans_scipii have descriptions for higher farming, but not for sewers. At least the farms can help me grow now.

edit again: there is a (very short) description for bathhouse, but not for sewers. Am I right in assuming that both of these should be buildable?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

They Hayasdan cannot build sewers or baths. They can, however build the doctor/hospital structures. Doctor/hospital structures have sewers as a prerequisite, though.

Health is being reworked a bit for the next release.

I always just add sewers for Hayasdan and Saba.

[Foot]

Hayasdan should have sewers, it was an oversight on my part that it was never fixed. However it is know fixed in the internal build, I believe, thanks to the insistence of Teleklos.

Foot

[Slim_Ghost]

Build forts at all mountain passes and double forts in each river. This ensures that the enemy needs at least 4 turns to seige you - giving you very ample time to gather or recruit armies.

I found that my whole family members together with elite armenian horse archers (the one with cataphract armor but use bows) recruited on the spot is enough to fend off anything the Selukids throw at me - which usually consist of full stacks of padotapois and other shitty persian levies. After I fend them off I disband the elites to reduce my upkeep.

Then I send my Sauromatae-raised prince (he is adopted in the northern steppes) and sneak him towards Kartathiokerta to harrass the enemy. But I ended up conquering all of Selukid territories only by using mercs.

[KARTLOS]

They Hayasdan cannot build sewers or baths. They can, however build the doctor/hospital structures. Doctor/hospital structures have sewers as a prerequisite, though.

Health is being reworked a bit for the next release.

I always just add sewers for Hayasdan and Saba.

how do you do that?

and is it possible to do mid-game?

[Hegix]

In your Rome-Total War\EB\Data folder there is a file named export_descr_buildings.txt. Open it and search for sewers. In the line "sewers requires factions {..." add "romans_scipii, " at the end. Make sure to put in the ", ". Save and exit.

And it is save-game compatible.

[noosh]

I stopped my Hayasdan temporarily because of dumb ai diplomacy...Pontus and Ptolemei stabbed me in the back while I more or less beat down the biggest cities of SA.

Here is what I did.

While you can, take your whole army and invade the two cities north of you. I dont remember their name, one gives you a port and another is right above ur capital. They both have mines though. As soon as you have those captured, disband all your infantry units except 1. In the two cities that you captured, built the foreign levy baracks and voila, you get Sythian horse Archers. After this the Selucids are relatively easy. Have 6 HA and 2 Princes and wait for an opportunity. If a big SA army comes, just use ur horse archers and speed to wittle them down, then charge wiht ur princes the units because the Ai just spreads them around. Then retreat, then do it all over again. In the meantime save money to build mines. After you have mines in your three cities, and if SA hasnt captured any rebel cities yet, go on the offensive. Invade SA cities that have light garrisons, assault them by using the lone infantry guy and when u capture them, sack and burn down every building. Each time you do it, you get something like 30k. Edessa, Antioch, Selukeia, Arbela and Ekbatran were all sacked by me. This way I had a ton of cash and had 3 armies full of HA. One always stays on defense around my capital. the second army is a conquest army, aiming at geting all the royal Hai lands + edessa because the SA will just keep coming at it and ull be able to kill them with HA. The third army will be the combat army. Everytime you see a stack of SA, because the ai almost never keeps huge stacks in its core lands but always has 4-5 units meeting somewhere attack them one at a time...

It gets a bit tedious though, because in all your battles u have to micromonage your cavarly and once u have like 10-12 units it gets really tedious. For some dumb reason the cavarly ai likes to CHARGE pikemen head on...after the central regions of the SA are devastated and instead of facing Elite Silver Shields or Armored Spearmen you are facing with only hellenic pikemen you can actually either invade Anatolia (assuming you arent backstabbed by Pontus) or take over the now desolate and devastated lands of the SA...

The Sarmations by the way are a bit of a pain in the butt, but if you capture whichever that town is that is beyond the mountains and keep a bunch of armenian medium cavarly to chase his CA then you will be fine...

again, Hayasdan gets pretty tedious because as soon as you break SA then Ptolomei show up with a full stack in ur heartland. And Ptolomei, unlike SA mixes in ranged units which make the tactics that work oh so well against SA backfire...


And if you do it right, you should basically have almost every victory a heroic victory. Soon youll have highly experienced horse archers that really really do alot of damage to armies with no or limited ranged components, as most SA armies tend to be.