I’m looking for a new PC....

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi guys,
I had to face up to it at some point – a hopeless Geforce 4 MX420, an AMD Athalon XP 1600+ processor and 256MB RAM, aren’t going to get me very far in the world of modern PC gaming - already I'm being given PC games which my PC cannot meet the minimum requirements to play and any other new games which my PC will play, come with some nasty lag problems. After enquiring about upgrades with my local PC dealer, and realising that a brand new PC would be much better option rather than replacing my almost antique motherboard (my PC doesn’t have the power capacity/slots for any decent cards, processors or more RAM to be fitted in), I decide to go hunting for a new PC on the Dell website – their advertisement campaign lured me in.

I immediately got attached to a Dimension 9200 which seems to be within my price range and seems to have the capacity to do what I want it to do. However, I’m concerned over what it may be too good to do!

I want to be able to play the great M:TW, the first Medieval game, and S:TW on the PC of my choice, and I’m a little concerned about what if it cannot. There are to card choice – a 256MB Nvidia Geforce 7900GS (included in the price) and a 256MB Nvidia Geforce 8600GTS (twenty-five pounds extra). I read that these cards are not compatible with the older drivers that can run Medieval, yet there is a work-around for the 7900, the 2x fix, but I’m, sadly, not too sure about the 8600. Also may I ask you technology genius’, is the twenty-five pounds worth the upgrade – is there really any large difference between the cards that could be critical in playing games of the next five tears, stably?

I’m also a little tetchy about my choice of operating system. Will the now outdated XP become obsolete and insignificant in the future, or is it the best option for now with the bugs and memory thefts of Vista? Or is Vista the supreme operating system, although the number of bugs may be numerous, that will allow me to play games in the future without costly upgrades? I’m, sadly, a little confused in these areas, as you have guessed my technical knowledge is very weak.

As a final question, don’t worry I have nearly shut-up pestering you with my noobish requests, I wish to ask you if there is anything else I should know regarding newer hardware and software when purchasing a new PC?

Thanks very much for any replies you may post, I’m most sorry for my irritating requests, thanks again, cheers!

[Husar]

Or is Vista the supreme operating system, although the number of bugs may be numerous, that will allow me to play games in the future without costly upgrades? I’m, sadly, a little confused in these areas, as you have guessed my technical knowledge is very weak.

I'm using Vista for some time now and haven't come across any bugs I can remember, it's pretty much like XP and I dare to say it feels even a bit more stable.

Apart from that, I wouldn't get a Dell, you may want to talk to your local PC dealer again, he can not only give you advice, he can most likely make you a better price as well.

[Beirut]

I'm partial to non-Dell type machines for easier upgrading. Sometimes the brand name rig makers get funky and "weld" the video card to the MB and that makes an upgrade more difficult.

As far as I've heard/read, there's no reason to jump into Vista unless you really want to. Stay with XP is possible. But that's just me.

[sapi]

I want to be able to play the great M:TW, the first Medieval game, and S:TW on the PC of my choice, and I’m a little concerned about what if it cannot. There are to card choice – a 256MB Nvidia Geforce 7900GS (included in the price) and a 256MB Nvidia Geforce 8600GTS (twenty-five pounds extra). I read that these cards are not compatible with the older drivers that can run Medieval, yet there is a work-around for the 7900, the 2x fix, but I’m, sadly, not too sure about the 8600. Also may I ask you technology genius’, is the twenty-five pounds worth the upgrade – is there really any large difference between the cards that could be critical in playing games of the next five tears, stably?

Definitely. dx10, which the 8xxx series supports, is the future and there's no reason not to get it (though i dont' know how much 25 pounds is, tbh)

Agree with Beirut on XP/vista, though

[Andres]

I want to be able to play the great M:TW, the first Medieval game, and S:TW on the PC of my choice, and I’m a little concerned about what if it cannot.

Apparantly you are going for a brand new pc. If you have enough room, why not just keeping your old pc only to play S:TW and M:TW? I'm sure you'll find a spot to place it somewhere on your desk.

Just an idea...

[Judge]

yes i have a couple clan members who now cannot play mtw/vi because they got the 8800 card, and it wont work, so he has to play on his sons pc lol,

i to am upgrading and am looking on www.novatech.com
seems very reasonably priced

[Yawning Angel]

I've just bought a nice shiny new PC (the old one was a P2, slot one machine and beyond all hope).

I went with XP Pro for the operating system as I have a strong dislike of the DRM rubbish that is part of Vista. I bought a 3XS system from Scan (http://www.scan.co.uk) and a monitor from Dell. Was very impressed with the service, and I had about 4 emails informing me of progress from when I ordered the system to when it turned up on my doorstep a week later on a Saturday morning.

Now all I have to do is buy some games worth running on the new beast

[Bijo]

Hi guys,
I had to face up to it at some point – a hopeless Geforce 4 MX420, an AMD Athalon XP 1600+ processor and 256MB RAM, aren’t going to get me very far in the world of modern PC gaming - ....

Do a bank heist, and get yourself a new PC.


Now to be less serious:
XP is better supported, but you might as well get Vista, though it's probably going to be a memory hog on yas. I say if you have XP now just use it, and later get Vista.

[Husar]

So the qustion is, which is hotter?
XP or Vista?
In the case that you have been distracted, here is another one for XP.

Ok, this is just a part of the graphical update, but I personally like the new eyecandy a lot and it's not getting in your way or anything, the menus and effects are very nice as well. Like I said before stability is about the same(very good in both cases it seems), but I would like to add that older hardware, especially periphal hardware like USB devices, may be better supported in XP. One of the reasons I dualboot is my old TV card that I "inherited" from my dad, which has no Vista drivers and just yesterday I found out that my dad's(yes, he is a major supplier for me ) old digicam won't be recognized correctly in Vista(it's a Casio QV-5700, don't know how old exactly that is), but in XP.
Most programs that are "close" to your hardware will probably need upgrading for Vista, as do drivers(Tages copy protection driver for example is already available, allowing games that use it to run in Vista as well).
Well, most of my games do run quite normal in Vista and in Medieval 2 for example I didn't notice any performance difference in comparison to XP, so I'm not sure whether the memory usage is a drawback(you can see it's at 36% in the Vista screenshot, upper right corner).

This here even says that Supreme Commander runs better in Vista, which seems to be because it can take advantage of 4GB of RAM there, if you can afford that much, but that may be a first indication that Vista is the future.
I would expect new games to be fully Vista compatble from now on(for some reason Stalker isn't). Vista is also somehow integrated with Office 2007 if you are going to buy that( that's another 150EUR for the home and student version which doesn't even include Outlook).
Then there are upcoming things like hybrid HDDs etc, which cannot be fully utilized by XP unless someone comes up with something unofficial for that as well.
The only advantage XP still has IMO is that it won't cost a thing if you already have it and it fully supports most outdated things.
I don't hate it, I'm using it right now, but I prefer to run Vista now because to me it just fells smoother overall(yeah, just eyecandy, but if eyecandy improves my perception/experience, then it's a good thing IMO).

Oh, and it has a stable 64bit version which I am using, 64bit applications seem to be faster than 32bit ones though Vista includes only 32 and 64 bit versions of IE7 and WMP11 so I can just hope that 64 bit will be a bit more widespread somewhen or for what other reason do we all(or most of us) have 64 bit CPUs nowadays?

Almost an essay again and I might add that the choice of hardware is a bit more important than the OS(and don't get a Vista OEM version, it will only work on the first mainboard it's installed on, making upgrading impossible) so you might want to post the system specs here before buying anything, but like I said before, it cannot hurt to get an offer from the local dealer, if something breaks you should get the added advantage of faster repair and someone real to talk to instead of some random guy on the other end of a telephone connection.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Thanks very much for all your replies.

I'll certainly have a look at that Novatech place - I've never seen PCs of that sort of specification so cheap! I'll also have words with the local PC fellow and see what he can quote me too - I never really thought of asking him actually, not quite sure why .

I also may get Vista rather than XP, as you have said it is the latest OS and, in the future, I should be expecting XP to become less supported as it becomes outdated. I presume that SP2, if there is one, will resolve the worst bugs which I hear about including the memory leaks that are being discussed within the thread.

Thanks again, cheers!

[Husar]

I presume that SP2, if there is one, will resolve the worst bugs which I hear about including the memory leaks that are being discussed within the thread.

I still don't know which bugs everybody is talking about, and the OS just seems to use a lot of memory if you have a lot of memory, wouldn't call that a leak.
Seriously, I cannot recall having had a single serious crash or bluescreen in Vista, not in the beta, not in RC1 and not in the full product.

Oh, and then I forgot the versions, I recommend you get either Home Premium or Ultimate since they have DVD playback ability and all the other stuff you want(Ultimate may be overkill though).

[BlackAxe3001]

What's your budget?

XP > Vista if you are looking at it from a gaming viewpoint. I will post supporting info if necessary, but take my word for it.

If you do get the dell, get the 8600GTS, as it is a little bit better than the 7900GS plus you will get DX10 support.

If I were you I would just build it yourself, as it's very simple to do. If you are interested I can post a parts list based on your budget.

-BA

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

You mean, I could build my own PC, I never thought that was non-techy possible, thanks for the advice. My budget is £1300 maximum for the PC itself, with an extra £125 reserved for MS Office, although I would like to reduce it slightly if it's possible to get higher quality products for a lower price. Thanks.

[Crian]

You mean, I could build my own PC, I never thought that was non-techy possible, thanks for the advice. My budget is £1300 maximum for the PC itself, with an extra £125 reserved for MS Office, although I would like to reduce it slightly if it's possible to get higher quality products for a lower price. Thanks.

If you're non-techy as you mentioned you could actually get into some problems if you decide to build your own PC. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable with computers but my latest upgrade hit a snag when I bought a cheap motherboard without doing enough research on it . Anyway I fixed my problem but the point is you should get a friend or someone you trust that knows this stuff to build it for you if you can't do it on your own.

Most computer shops will assemble it for you anyway and at a MUCH BETTER PRICE so there's really no need to get from Dell or any of these branded companies... the warranties on computer shops are just as good and the customer service is also much better (in my most humble opinion) because you can run up to the counter and go as opposed to sending an email to or calling "technical support".

As for the card you mentioned... hmmm, I've read somewhere that the 8600 GS isn't very good and that a 7950 is better. If you want Dx10 support, the 320 MB 8800 GTS seems to be the better choice, but it is more expensive I think?

EDIT: Oh, and sorry I can't help you more about this, I'm on the other side of the world from where you are so I really can't get into specifics. :D

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hullo again,
A few weeks on since I started this thread, and now I have purchased my new PC and a laptop in addition. In the end I decided to go to the local PC guy who custom built it to my specifications. At Husar's recommendation, and his, I chose Vista - he informed me that eventually XP would become obsolete so it would be better to get Vista to ensure my PC lasts into the future without the risk of out dating.

My New PC:
Windows Vista Home Premium
AMD Athalon X2 64
2GB RAM
Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTX 768MB
60GB Hard Drive

£1200

My New Laptop:
Windows Vista Home Premium
Intel Pentium Dual Core 1.75Ghz
1GB RAM
ATi Radeon Xpress 200M 319MB Integrated Graphics Memory (I thought he gave me a Geforce 6200 128MB, but he claims he made a mistake when handing over the PC. He's refunded me half the price because of this)
60GB Hard Drive

£450

£1650 - £50 (the value of my ancient PC) - £225 (compensation for the retailers mistake) = £1600

Thanks for all your help guys, I greatly appreciate it. Cheers!

[sapi]

Enjoy

[Husar]

At Husar's recommendation, and his, I chose Vista - he informed me that eventually XP would become obsolete so it would be better to get Vista to ensure my PC lasts into the future without the risk of out dating.

Now I can only hope you'll like it because if you won't I'll feel sick and will be screaming in my bed for hours because I made you spend money on the wrong OS. Though so far I still like my Vista and since I stopped watching TV, I hardly load up XP anymore.

Hope you'll enjoy it.

[LeftEyeNine]

I'm seriously wondering how people can make it with hdd's less than 80 GB.

Teach me the way please.

[sapi]

*notices the HDD size and faints.

I installed vista about a week ago.

I've used 90GB.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Surprisingly I've never used any more than 24GB of hard-drive space. I always uninstall un-needed programs every week, the ones that the manager informs me are used rarely, this is most of them since I only ever play one game at a time, and useless documents. It's quite easy to do, but the time taken to re-install all this stuff when you need it again is exhausting - due to this, some games and programs only ever get used once!

BTW, when I opened the laptop's box today I found that I had received a model with an ATi Radeon Xpress 200M graphics chip living in it rather than the Geforce I expected, he refunded me half the cost, as compensation, for his mistake - it's not exactly an ideal situation, but at least I got better value for my money.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

As for the card you mentioned... hmmm, I've read somewhere that the 8600 GS isn't very good and that a 7950 is better. If you want Dx10 support, the 320 MB 8800 GTS seems to be the better choice, but it is more expensive I think?

I had a 7850GT512. I now have an 8800GTS320. The 8800 costs less.

For the money you have you should be able to get at least as good a pc as I have. It cost me 13000 us dollars,

Intel core 2 duo E6600 (looks like you can afford the 6700)
250 gig sata II hd
2gig ddr2 ram
500w psu
Nvidea evga 8800GTS320 superclocked
Asuz P5W DH deluxe Mobo
Plus tower and other accessories with windows xp pro.

This will not run VI or MTW because of the 8800. At least mine wont.

[Stuperman]

That's one sweet video card in the desktop, good call on avoiding the 320MB 8800GTS, 512mb video memory is a MUST these days, highres textures take up a lot of vieo memory.

I personally an not a fan of vista (I agree with a lot of what's written here: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=40533 ) But I hope you like it.

How's the Xpress200M? does it run RTW/M2TW?

And yeah, the 7900 series will outperform the 8600 series, the 7900's have 256 bit memory and the 8600 only has 128 bit memory, that gives the 7900 twice the bandwidth at a(any?) given memory speed.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

good call on avoiding the 320MB 8800GTS, 512mb video memory

My 8800320 blows away my 7950gt512

[Stuperman]

My 8800320 blows away my 7950gt512

Yes, It would, but at what resolution?

looking at this: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2926&p=3



edit: 2nd pic doesn't work it's here


the 2nd two pictures show the 7900GTX and the 7950GT beating the 8800GTS at higher resolutions. I'd say memory can be limiting. BUT huge but, Unless you are running a 22" widescreen moniter (most 17" and 19" LCD's max at 1280x1024) it really shouldn't be a problem.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

How's the Xpress200M? does it run RTW/M2TW?

It runs R:TW fine with no problems, much better than my old PC ever could. I can't crank it up to full settings without a little bit of a stutter, but on Medium, everything works nice and smoothly. Sadly, I haven't got M2:TW yet, so I can't really comment. Sorry.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Unless you are running a 22" widescreen moniter (most 17" and 19" LCD's max at 1280x1024) it really shouldn't be a problem.

Ive got a 22inch HD monitor. I see a big difference in Oblivion. The sad thing is I cant play VI. Im thinking of getting a new card when the prices drop some more .

[Lord Winter]

Gawin did you misplace a zero there? 13,000 dolars is well ... huge

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Hey whats a 0? It aint nothin