Getting down with the boys.

[Fragony]

Well that ended unfortunate. Maybe I should have said things nicer, sensitive people after all. Of course we are talking about the gay parade in Jeruzalem. But I wasn't anymore, every time I think we have hit the bottom someone always has a shovel at hand to make the bottom even deeper.

So after the participation of 11 year olds on a boat in a gay-parade was entireily da bomb according to our progressive members, 11 year old can be surprisingly mature after all and know everything there is to know about sexuality and would never be influenced by adults making them think they are something they are not. But as always this wasn't enough. I got a boat and I am not afraid to use it.

So now, they are filling it up with gay people with down syndrome. Hmmm, down -syndrome, isn't that that condition where you never mature mentally, never really getting older then 8, 10 at most. Of course people with down syndrome aren't very impressionable, if you tell them their a chicken they don't start picking at the ground trying to find some grain. This is all perfectly fine isn't it? So am I being homophobic again or is this all just mental abuse?

[Andres]

Well that ended unfortunate. Maybe I should have said things nicer, sensitive people after all. Of course we are talking about the gay parade in Jeruzalem. But I wasn't anymore, every time I think we have hit the bottom someone always has a shovel at hand to make the bottom even deeper.

So after the participation of 11 year olds on a boat in a gay-parade was entireily da bomb according to our progressive members, 11 year old can be surprisingly mature after all and know everything there is to know about sexuality and would never be influenced by adults making them think they are something they are not. But as always this wasn't enough. I got a boat and I am not afraid to use it.

So now, they are filling it up with gay people with down syndrome. Hmmm, down -syndrome, isn't that that condition where you never mature mentally, never really getting older then 8, 10 at most. Of course people with down syndrome aren't very impressionable, if you tell them their a chicken they don't start picking at the ground trying to find some grain. This is all perfectly fine isn't it? So am I being homophobic again or is this all just mental abuse?

Can you provide us with a link/links to your source(s)?

If you want people to debate/discuss about this, you should at least allow them to check the story for themselves.

Thanks in advance.

[Fragony]

Well they will have to babelfish it,

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6...ten.html?p=7,2

only in dutch, only in Holland.

[Ser Clegane]

It would be great - when you start a thread about such a topic - if you could at least paraphrase the most important point instead of us having to bablefish an article.

What kind of intitution (the boat) are you talking about?

Who runs it?

Who decides that the disabled people who seem to live there as "gay"?

[Fragony]

Dunno, the usual suspects I guess. Gay parade is held every year, in Amsterdam they cruise with boats on the grachts.

Who decides wether or not these people are gay, well, that sums up nicely don't you think? They are mentally disabled, and like 11 year olds they are impressionable. That is why I file it under mental abuse, do you believe an 11 year old or a person with down-syndrome can truly make up it's own mind about these things? They aren't helped, they are pushed into a certain direction, and I don't exactly think the motives of the people pushing them are that noble.

[KukriKhan]

Here's an English article on the topic, that covers much of what I think Fragony objects to.

I don't see anything about disabled kids, though. That's a newer twist.

[Andres]

It would be great - when you start a thread about such a topic - if you could at least paraphrase the most important point instead of us having to bablefish an article.

What kind of intitution (the boat) are you talking about?

Who runs it?

Who decides that the disabled people who seem to live there as "gay"?

Far from perfect, but here's a rough translation of the article about the yearly Amsterdam Gay Parade:

We already had a boat with minor gays on the yearly parade.
This year, for the first time, there will also be a boat filled with mentally handicapped (?) gays.

The Amsterdam mental institiution "Cordaan" has agreed to allow two boats during the extravagant gay parade. Not only mentally handicapped people will be on the boat, but also people suffering from mental diseases and older people.

The COC (apparantly a Dutch organisation protecting the rights and interests of gays in the Netherlands) is very pleased with the participation of Cordaan. "This is absolutely a good iniative", the president (of the COC), Frank Dalen said.

According to mister Dalen, there's still much work to do for gays in the mental care area.

By allowing the "Cordaan boats" to participate on the parade, Van Dalen expects homosexuality in this branche will become more debatable.

The yearly boat parade will take place from the 2nd to the 5th of August.

[Stig]

Since it's the Telegraaf, which can be called The Dutch Bild Zeitung or The Dutch Sun, I wouldn't go into the article too deeply, it's all blown up anyway.

[Fragony]

Since it's the Telegraaf, which can be called The Dutch Bild Zeitung or The Dutch Sun, I wouldn't go into the article too deeply, it's all blown up anyway.

Nah it isn't nowhere that bad, it isn't a good newspaper (horrible in fact) but it's still the only one you can trust. Marriane Vaatstra and this simply doesn't exist in the progressive newspapers.

[Stig]

but it's still the only one you can trust

eh, sorry
I would never trust a tabloid, gimme some quality

[Fragony]

eh, sorry
I would never trust a tabloid, gimme some quality

Sadly can't do, we don't have any quality newspapers.

[Don Corleone]

I think Fragony just gets his feelings hurt every year that nobody asks him to ride on their boat with them. Now, even Down's kids are getting picked in front of him.

Don't worry big boy, you can ride on my boat. I'll bring the wine, you bring the candles.

(After your comments in the other gay thread, you had that coming).

Now, as far as this goes, I understand what Fragony's point is, sort of. He's saying that people that are severely retarded are inherently asexual, as are 8 year olds. They never develop as sexual beings (at the very least, they can't mentally grasp it).

I think this gets back to the whole choice/genetic issue Fragony. Adults with Down's syndrome DO become sexually mature, at least physically. They do have sex. That's why it used to be common practice to sterilize them, because they couldn't understand the consequences of it. I'm not saying it was right, but it was done for the right reasons. But they're going to have sex, whether they fully grasp the nuances of making love or not. And if they're predisposed for other little boys, well, they're going to join the Fire Island conga line. Not much to be done about that either.

That's if you hold that it's in one's biological makeup. Not sure where I stand on that one.

[Stig]

Sadly can't do, we don't have any quality newspapers.

Volkskrant, and NRC if you need to

[Fragony]

Oh don't pity me I got a boat of my own. Don't have to bring anything, I got the goods sir stocked and ready for action.

I will just have to accept that I am the only sane person in the world I guess

Let me put it this way, or not just forget all about it <--that hurts

sigh

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

On a somewhat related note, where does the law stand on you sleeping with mentally handicapped people? It would seem a bit odd if I can't have sex with a four year old, but can have sex with a twenty-two year old with a mental age of four.

[Don Corleone]

On a somewhat related note, where does the law stand on you sleeping with mentally handicapped people?

In the US, it's usually 2nd degree rape (because informed consent could not possibly have been given). The only booty that challenged people are supposed to get is from other challenged people.

[Fragony]

Volkskrant, and NRC if you need to

Well let's see, if I have to chose between de Volkskrant that initiated the torture hoax or the NRC that invents publications on the public opinion on europe and calls for political assasinations. Nah.

[Stig]

Well you visit GeenStijl so let's not start about what you think of certain things, as I already know the answer


I hate that site, sad sad men

[Fragony]

Judge for yourselve people, just a funsite.

www.geenstijl.nl

[Stig]

since hardly anyone speaks Dutch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeenStijl.nl

[Fragony]

Wow Stig that is truly disturbing indeed, somebody stop them

Even Pechtold comes there, your big hero.

[Stig]

Doesn't mean I have to. Damned I hate those right-winged dangers they are. Be a nice to others

[Fragony]

Doesn't mean I have to. Damned I hate those right-winged dangers they are. Be a nice to others

I really have no idea what you are talking about, perhaps Wilders writing the occasional collumn but so does Harry van Bommel of the communist party. You make it appear as if they are the stormfront, now those are peaches. It's just a funsite, nothing more. And common, you must at least have smiled a tiny little bit when de Volkskrant had to make Rachel Hazes the greatest dutchman ever. I did dear god make it stop

Perfectly harmless

[Tribesman]

So now, they are filling it up with gay people with down syndrome. Hmmm, down -syndrome, isn't that that condition where you never mature mentally, never really getting older then 8, 10 at most.

Ah that explains your offensive crap in the other topic , you havn't got a clue what you are on about .
Is ignorance a mental illness ?

[Bijo]

Your Dutch sources, Fragony, which you often include (or even exclude) would potentially exclude many thread participators. I just had to mention.

And GeenStijl..... *vomit* What kind of silly news source is that? I predict it most likely produced by fools who desired a... "special" or even... "cool" and flashy news source.

Are they aware that having "no style" (or so they think they have) still equals having a style?

[Adrian II]

So am I being homophobic again or is this all just mental abuse?

You are being homophobic again. This Parade is a party, not an infectious disease. Stop panicking for a change.

It is a celebration of gay rights and awareness and many non-gays participate or support it. I've told you before I have been on one of those boats regardless of my own sexual preferences, and I had a heck of a time. I have never had so much fun at a public manifestation as I had that day. Nobody forced me into anything, force being anathema to the whole thing. Even the right-wing paper you refer to does not blow it out of proportion. The Parade is part and parcel of the Amsterdam cultural landscape and it is here to stay.

As to the mentally handicapped, it is still too often assumed that their sexual inclinations are exclusively heterosexual. If we allow some of them to marry, why shouldn't we allow some to participate in this Parade? We allow mentally handicapped to participate in religious ceremonies too, don't we? No reason to curtail that either.

[Fragony]

Ah that explains your offensive crap in the other topic , you havn't got a clue what you are on about .
Is ignorance a mental illness ?

Look, a wall, charge.

[Yun Dog]

The real question with these things is: If heterosexuals were to have a heterosexuality parade/carnival would that be percieved by some as being biggoted or oppressing the rights of homosexuals.

I would recommend you start one yourself but you'd probably be arrested - now something in amsterdam that can get you arrested - theres a first

and more importantly b) why arnt there any heterosexual parades or the good old pagan fertility rituals

if you ask me religion has to alot to answer for alot of the boring unfunness and prudishness of people on this planet

[Fragony]

I've told you before I have been on one of those boats regardless of my own sexual preferences, and I had a heck of a time.

About time they had a boat for heterosexual gays, this vulnerable group is too often forgotten

[Louis VI the Fat]

I have been on one of those boats regardless of my own sexual preferences,

Nobody forced me into anything

Yes, but what we want to know is if anybody forced anything into you...

b) why arnt there any heterosexual parades

Mainstream society is one big heterosexual parade. And rather exhibitionist at that.


About these mentally challenged. I am not sure what to think of their sexuality in general. I mean, in a clinical, psychological sense. I simply lack the knowledge about their affliction(s).
They are adults, and therefore I assume they have fully developed sexual feelings. On the other hand, they are, by definition, incapable of forming informed decisions of their own free will like other adults. So there's a problem.

However, I do think that down's syndrome or other afflictions don't affect sexual orientation. And Frag, homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. It is not an evil desire that you trick people into. Whatever opinion I have (or not have) of how mentally challenged people's sex life should be, at least I think we shouldn't force it to be heterosexual.