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Thread: Faction thread 6: Empire

  1. #1

    Default Faction thread 6: Empire

    Krazysigmarite .... this one is for you
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  2. #2
    RnJ PR Officer Member Eufarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    YES! the Empire has its own thread



    woo hooo!!!!


  3. #3
    Warhammer: Total War Team Member Krazysigmarite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    First I'd like to say, THANK YOU to Bwain for giving us imperials a thread to discuss our magnificent Empire.

    Okay, here's a subject that I've been wanting to bring up for a bit of time.
    How do we incorporate the imperial city-states and provinces into WTW?

    My idea is this: The Empire will have its standard army, but each imperial province will have a unit that can ONLY be recruited there, which will wear the colours of the state.

    FOR Example:
    MIDDENHEIM(In Middenland) - Knights of the White Wolf
    HOCHLAND - Hochland Long-Rifles
    STIRLAND - Stirland Patrol
    NULN - Helblaster Volley Gun and Helstorm Rocket Battery
    OSTERMARK - Ostermark Halberdiers


    These are just suggestions - I'd love if other empire players threw in their ideas for province-specific units! I feel this would be the best way to incorporate all the provinces of the Empire without bogging the Empire down with too many units - and still give a great feel to the armies with that 'exotic' unit.
    Last edited by Krazysigmarite; 06-28-2007 at 08:43.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    What will happen when the Empire conquers provinces held by other factions; will the Empire be able to recruit special units there, or just standard units? If they can only recruit standard units then as the Empire grows it will be difficult to move the exotic units to distant lands.

    It is possible to limit certain units to certain areas as the Long Road mod has a building that recruits different mercenaries in different areas. If the Empire has to hold specific provinces then perhaps each of these provinces should let the Empire recruit different units.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    some ideas:

    Averland
    The Order of the Black Bear
    Mountainguard (Bergjaege) excellent archers
    Halflings bands
    Hochland
    Hochland long-rifles
    Rangers
    Middenland
    Carroburg greatswords
    Nordland
    Nordland mariners
    Imperial navy great cannons
    Ostermark
    Improved peasants?
    Halberdiers
    Ostland
    Ogres mercenaries
    Rangers
    Reikland
    Reiksguard
    Handgunners
    Halberdiers
    Stirland
    The Order of the Sacred Scythe (The Order of the Raven Knights?)
    Stirland river patrol (Crossbow or Swordsman?)
    Halflings bands
    Talabecland
    ?
    Wissenland
    ?
    City State of Altdorf
    The Knights Griffon
    Reiksguard
    City State of Middenheim
    Knights of the White Wolf
    City State of Nuln
    The Knights Griffon
    Artillery (Helblaster, Helstorm or great cannon)
    City State of Talabheim
    The Order of the Blazing Sun
    The Knights Panther


    On another note, are the witch hunter, war priests and flagellants programmed for the empire?

  6. #6
    Member Member Jubee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    On another note, are the witch hunter, war priests and flagellants programmed for the empire?

    Flagellants could be recruited from church like norse clerics or whatever they are.

  7. #7
    Annoying Warhammer know-it-all Member DrZoidberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    I think they should be able to recruit Stirland patrol for instance anywhere as long as the have the required building. Even if we limit where they can recruit them there's still no limit where the player wishes to walk away with them to which defeats the whole point of having city specific troops.

    I think we should treat it just as a fun flavour thing and not take it so seriously. We won't be able to implement all the intricacies of every WH aspect anyway.

    This said, there's no problem with limiting where guilds can be placed, White wolf guild in Middenheim for instance.
    Sorry you must have been boring. -Dr Zoidberg

  8. #8

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    the problem with using guilds for that is that as far as I know there is only one guild allowed per settlement. In the case of the Knights of the White Wolf (and some other knights) why not using religious buildings?

    Temple of Morr
    The Order of the Sacred Scythe (might not be accurate though)

    Temple of Sigmar
    The Knights Griffon

    Temple of Ulric
    Knights of the White Wolf

  9. #9

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by DrZoidberg
    I think they should be able to recruit Stirland patrol for instance anywhere as long as the have the required building. Even if we limit where they can recruit them there's still no limit where the player wishes to walk away with them to which defeats the whole point of having city specific troops.
    And allowing them to be recruited anywhere doesn't?

  10. #10
    Warhammer: Total War Team Member Krazysigmarite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    They aren't garrisons who sit around inside the province. Their entire purpose is to represent the other provinces of the Empire while adding interesting twists to the player's army, so traveling away from the home province shouldn't matter.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Maybe its just my opinion, but special units should be limited to about 5-6 per faction. As well, someone meioned before needing to march around exotic unit because of a large empire, I think thats the way it should be, because it makes them more valuable on the fronteir.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    I would assume any unit of a special nature, be it a Bone Giant or a Slayer would not spring up in a recently conquered province, but would come from well established settlements. They are going to be a precious resource that should NOT be available for every battle, but should be hard to build, expensive to maintain, and something you would recruit for a specific campaign or invasion. If this wasn't the case, you would end up with players fielding armies made up only of special units, and the core units would be relegated to garrison troops.

    That's not in the spirit of the tabletop game, and something we need to take care of.

    If you could only recruit slayers in a specific territory, there would be good reason to defend it when playing Dwarf... and a good reason to storm and burn it if you were on the other side!

    You could have a building 'Dwarf Temple' that would give certain units...say good standard melee troops... when built anywhere. When linked to special resource 'troll slayer' it also builds troll slayers. The special resources are placed in the map regions. This way, you get a generic building that provides certain units when built anywhere, and very special units when built in special places. Gives us maximum flexibility on the build tree without using special buildings for everything.
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwian
    You could have a building 'Dwarf Temple' that would give certain units...say good standard melee troops... when built anywhere. When linked to special resource 'troll slayer' it also builds troll slayers. The special resources are placed in the map regions. This way, you get a generic building that provides certain units when built anywhere, and very special units when built in special places. Gives us maximum flexibility on the build tree without using special buildings for everything.
    This sounds like a good compromise indeed. I believe the RTW mod the fourth age: http://www.thefourthage.org/ has something like that. It also takes into account the historical affinity of factions, for instance it is highly unlikely that orcs could be able to recruit dwarf slayers and so on...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwian
    If you could only recruit slayers in a specific territory, there would be good reason to defend it when playing Dwarf... and a good reason to storm and burn it if you were on the other side!

    You could have a building 'Dwarf Temple' that would give certain units...say good standard melee troops... when built anywhere. When linked to special resource 'troll slayer' it also builds troll slayers. The special resources are placed in the map regions. This way, you get a generic building that provides certain units when built anywhere, and very special units when built in special places. Gives us maximum flexibility on the build tree without using special buildings for everything.
    This sounds like a good solution to our unit recruitment problem. We should have a thread discussing this further (such as which regions will provide what benefits to which factions). We could also add resources to the map to indicate which areas will allow special units to be built (in the same way that RTW had elephant symbols to show that elephant units could be recruited).
    4 Seasons (6 Empires battle for supremecy); 3.0 version
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Stopping a faction from building special units when they conquer a city is easy ... the special unit is simply not available to the faction. The Empire can only build Empire units.

    Special resources can be shown on the map, or they can be hidden. This might be better for building special units... or you could have a picture of a special building on the map to indicate the 'resource' ... like a resource called 'Temple of Morr' with a little tiny temple icon on the map.
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    I think it should be possible for factions to train/hire friendly factions units (to a certain extend at least). This is what's been done in the fourth age or even in EB https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73928

    In warhammer you could have some dwarf/kislevites/bretonians/... units in a empire army (there are dwarf living in imperial cities. Same goes for other factions.

    For the special regional based resources it's a good idea. Just keep in mind that there are temples of Morr in every imperial towns. This could be better suited for the Imperial Gunnery School or School of Engineers in Nuln. Such one of a kind buildings/resources/...

    This might be better left for release number 2 though.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Some units will be available as mercenaries, but I can't see large numbers of Dwarves servince anywhere else but in their own armies.

    Dogs of War will be available for purchase, but they will be limited to the sorts of riff-raff likely to be working as a sword-for-hire!
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    yes Bwian, I agree, having them as mercs would be a good compromise, at least in a first time. I think in m2tw you can retrain your mercs units. That's why I left the "train/hire" ambiguity.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    hmm i was wondering are you doing the whole empire as a single faction or splitting it up into smaller factions?

    i personally would love to see middenland as a faction because it has lots of different units from the storm of chaos book

    I was also wondering what is the empires general unit will it be greatswords or a knightly order?
    For Middenheim & The Empire!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    The Empire is planned as a single faction. IT does have some troop variety, and could be split up... but in terms of how it would be played, I think a single faction is more fitting.

    Otherwise, you are effectively designing in an Empire break up and civil-war. Not something I really see as being desirable in terms of how the Warhammer world should work. I don;t see any way of ensuring a permanent alliance or vassel state kind of setup that would be sufficiently workable to feel right.
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  21. #21

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    actually there have been several civil wars throughout the empires history. Although the main reason to create them would be territory. The empire has the largest portion of land compared to anyone, it would be better if they were split up to stop them having a huge advantage over other factions.

    btw in kingdoms the crusader campaign has set diplomacy maybe you could set it so that they wont declare war (unless the player does it) also you might be able to get it so that its Order vs Chaos
    For Middenheim & The Empire!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthes
    actually there have been several civil wars throughout the empires history. Although the main reason to create them would be territory. The empire has the largest portion of land compared to anyone, it would be better if they were split up to stop them having a huge advantage over other factions.

    btw in kingdoms the crusader campaign has set diplomacy maybe you could set it so that they wont declare war (unless the player does it) also you might be able to get it so that its Order vs Chaos
    Anyone except CDwarfs, Lizardmen, Orcs, Chaos, Araby or TK...
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jubal_Barca
    Anyone except CDwarfs, Lizardmen, Orcs, Chaos, Araby or TK...
    Lizardmen have most of there land abandened and Orcs or Chaos land is divided and fights amonghst itsself. though im not sure how you are doing the campaign so i may be wrong
    For Middenheim & The Empire!

  24. #24

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    There is not necessarily any advantage in a wargame of having the largest territory. Yes..you can raise a larger army... but if you are surrounded by hostile and aggressive enemies, you also have to defend the largest border.

    The Empire would play out pretty much as a faction to be nibbled away at by all it's foes, and would be quite trickey to ensure that you had goiven enough thought to what happens at home when you start trying to amass a single army to go conquering.
    Careless Orc Costs Lives!

  25. #25
    Member Member overkill1991's Avatar
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    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Yeah, the Empire may have a lot of territory but it has a lot of enemies.

    To name a few :

    Orc Waaagh's attack the Empire frequently

    Chaos Warhosts invade the Empire once in a while

    Chaos warbands roam across the empire's borders

    The forrests are being inhabited by herds of Beastmen

    The Empire is also attacked from within, it has several chaos cults

    There are Skaven living under cities of the Empire that can attack the Empire whenever they want

  26. #26

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Their position seems pretty similar as the HRE position in vanilla MTW2, and fighting war at several fronts at the same time is not an enviable situation.
    The idea with certain units only being recruitable locally is a great idea, and it works out really well in other mods. It's easily codable aswell.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    hmm thinking about it you are right they will probberbly play much like the romens in BI constantly under attack and never time to amass a real attack force. least it will be a challenge
    For Middenheim & The Empire!

  28. #28

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwian
    The Empire is planned as a single faction. IT does have some troop variety, and could be split up... but in terms of how it would be played, I think a single faction is more fitting.

    Otherwise, you are effectively designing in an Empire break up and civil-war. Not something I really see as being desirable in terms of how the Warhammer world should work. I don;t see any way of ensuring a permanent alliance or vassel state kind of setup that would be sufficiently workable to feel right.
    Indeed. What might have been nice would be something like the RTW Senate system (the factions are initially united, but at some point one of them might make a grap for the supreme power and the others might either join together to fight the ursurper or make their own attempts, both of it could happen in RTW, or so I┤ve ben told - I never experienced the former)) but that┤s not possible in M2TW. So a unified Empire works best, I think.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    A question: Do you need any voice actors for the empire at all? You can use the HRE ones, they always refer to "the empire" anyway.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Faction thread 6: Empire

    The HRE faction also refers to the Kaiser and the Reich (especially on the diplomocatic screen). So it may need replacing.
    4 Seasons (6 Empires battle for supremecy); 3.0 version
    Total War Eras (start at 970, 1080, 1200, 1300, 1400, or 1500); 2.4 version
    Eras Total Conquest (start at 1230, 1346, 1547); 1.2 version

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