Krazysigmarite .... this one is for you
Krazysigmarite .... this one is for you
Careless Orc Costs Lives!
First I'd like to say, THANK YOU to Bwain for giving us imperials a thread to discuss our magnificent Empire.
Okay, here's a subject that I've been wanting to bring up for a bit of time.
How do we incorporate the imperial city-states and provinces into WTW?
My idea is this: The Empire will have its standard army, but each imperial province will have a unit that can ONLY be recruited there, which will wear the colours of the state.
FOR Example:
MIDDENHEIM(In Middenland) - Knights of the White Wolf
HOCHLAND - Hochland Long-Rifles
STIRLAND - Stirland Patrol
NULN - Helblaster Volley Gun and Helstorm Rocket Battery
OSTERMARK - Ostermark Halberdiers
These are just suggestions - I'd love if other empire players threw in their ideas for province-specific units! I feel this would be the best way to incorporate all the provinces of the Empire without bogging the Empire down with too many units - and still give a great feel to the armies with that 'exotic' unit.
Last edited by Krazysigmarite; 06-28-2007 at 08:43.
Proud Dev. Team member of Warhammer II: Total War - A small demo for Medieval II: Total War.
What will happen when the Empire conquers provinces held by other factions; will the Empire be able to recruit special units there, or just standard units? If they can only recruit standard units then as the Empire grows it will be difficult to move the exotic units to distant lands.
It is possible to limit certain units to certain areas as the Long Road mod has a building that recruits different mercenaries in different areas. If the Empire has to hold specific provinces then perhaps each of these provinces should let the Empire recruit different units.
4 Seasons (6 Empires battle for supremecy); 3.0 version
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=172698 (Thread)Total War Eras (start at 970, 1080, 1200, 1300, 1400, or 1500); 2.4 version
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some ideas:
Averland
The Order of the Black Bear
Mountainguard (Bergjaege) excellent archers
Halflings bands
Hochland
Hochland long-rifles
Rangers
Middenland
Carroburg greatswords
Nordland
Nordland mariners
Imperial navy great cannons
Ostermark
Improved peasants?
Halberdiers
Ostland
Ogres mercenaries
Rangers
Reikland
Reiksguard
Handgunners
Halberdiers
Stirland
The Order of the Sacred Scythe (The Order of the Raven Knights?)
Stirland river patrol (Crossbow or Swordsman?)
Halflings bands
Talabecland
?
Wissenland
?
City State of Altdorf
The Knights Griffon
Reiksguard
City State of Middenheim
Knights of the White Wolf
City State of Nuln
The Knights Griffon
Artillery (Helblaster, Helstorm or great cannon)
City State of Talabheim
The Order of the Blazing Sun
The Knights Panther
On another note, are the witch hunter, war priests and flagellants programmed for the empire?
On another note, are the witch hunter, war priests and flagellants programmed for the empire?
Flagellants could be recruited from church like norse clerics or whatever they are.
I think they should be able to recruit Stirland patrol for instance anywhere as long as the have the required building. Even if we limit where they can recruit them there's still no limit where the player wishes to walk away with them to which defeats the whole point of having city specific troops.
I think we should treat it just as a fun flavour thing and not take it so seriously. We won't be able to implement all the intricacies of every WH aspect anyway.
This said, there's no problem with limiting where guilds can be placed, White wolf guild in Middenheim for instance.
Sorry you must have been boring. -Dr Zoidberg
the problem with using guilds for that is that as far as I know there is only one guild allowed per settlement. In the case of the Knights of the White Wolf (and some other knights) why not using religious buildings?
Temple of Morr
The Order of the Sacred Scythe (might not be accurate though)
Temple of Sigmar
The Knights Griffon
Temple of Ulric
Knights of the White Wolf
And allowing them to be recruited anywhere doesn't?Originally Posted by DrZoidberg
They aren't garrisons who sit around inside the province. Their entire purpose is to represent the other provinces of the Empire while adding interesting twists to the player's army, so traveling away from the home province shouldn't matter.
Proud Dev. Team member of Warhammer II: Total War - A small demo for Medieval II: Total War.
Maybe its just my opinion, but special units should be limited to about 5-6 per faction. As well, someone meioned before needing to march around exotic unit because of a large empire, I think thats the way it should be, because it makes them more valuable on the fronteir.
I would assume any unit of a special nature, be it a Bone Giant or a Slayer would not spring up in a recently conquered province, but would come from well established settlements. They are going to be a precious resource that should NOT be available for every battle, but should be hard to build, expensive to maintain, and something you would recruit for a specific campaign or invasion. If this wasn't the case, you would end up with players fielding armies made up only of special units, and the core units would be relegated to garrison troops.
That's not in the spirit of the tabletop game, and something we need to take care of.
If you could only recruit slayers in a specific territory, there would be good reason to defend it when playing Dwarf... and a good reason to storm and burn it if you were on the other side!
You could have a building 'Dwarf Temple' that would give certain units...say good standard melee troops... when built anywhere. When linked to special resource 'troll slayer' it also builds troll slayers. The special resources are placed in the map regions. This way, you get a generic building that provides certain units when built anywhere, and very special units when built in special places. Gives us maximum flexibility on the build tree without using special buildings for everything.
Careless Orc Costs Lives!
This sounds like a good compromise indeed. I believe the RTW mod the fourth age: http://www.thefourthage.org/ has something like that. It also takes into account the historical affinity of factions, for instance it is highly unlikely that orcs could be able to recruit dwarf slayers and so on...Originally Posted by Bwian
This sounds like a good solution to our unit recruitment problem. We should have a thread discussing this further (such as which regions will provide what benefits to which factions). We could also add resources to the map to indicate which areas will allow special units to be built (in the same way that RTW had elephant symbols to show that elephant units could be recruited).Originally Posted by Bwian
4 Seasons (6 Empires battle for supremecy); 3.0 version
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=172698 (Thread)Total War Eras (start at 970, 1080, 1200, 1300, 1400, or 1500); 2.4 version
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2165 (Download mod)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=253 (Forum)Eras Total Conquest (start at 1230, 1346, 1547); 1.2 version
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1820 (Download)
Stopping a faction from building special units when they conquer a city is easy ... the special unit is simply not available to the faction. The Empire can only build Empire units.
Special resources can be shown on the map, or they can be hidden. This might be better for building special units... or you could have a picture of a special building on the map to indicate the 'resource' ... like a resource called 'Temple of Morr' with a little tiny temple icon on the map.
Careless Orc Costs Lives!
I think it should be possible for factions to train/hire friendly factions units (to a certain extend at least). This is what's been done in the fourth age or even in EB https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73928
In warhammer you could have some dwarf/kislevites/bretonians/... units in a empire army (there are dwarf living in imperial cities. Same goes for other factions.
For the special regional based resources it's a good idea. Just keep in mind that there are temples of Morr in every imperial towns. This could be better suited for the Imperial Gunnery School or School of Engineers in Nuln. Such one of a kind buildings/resources/...
This might be better left for release number 2 though.
Some units will be available as mercenaries, but I can't see large numbers of Dwarves servince anywhere else but in their own armies.
Dogs of War will be available for purchase, but they will be limited to the sorts of riff-raff likely to be working as a sword-for-hire!
Careless Orc Costs Lives!
yes Bwian, I agree, having them as mercs would be a good compromise, at least in a first time. I think in m2tw you can retrain your mercs units. That's why I left the "train/hire" ambiguity.
hmm i was wondering are you doing the whole empire as a single faction or splitting it up into smaller factions?
i personally would love to see middenland as a faction because it has lots of different units from the storm of chaos book
I was also wondering what is the empires general unit will it be greatswords or a knightly order?
For Middenheim & The Empire!
The Empire is planned as a single faction. IT does have some troop variety, and could be split up... but in terms of how it would be played, I think a single faction is more fitting.
Otherwise, you are effectively designing in an Empire break up and civil-war. Not something I really see as being desirable in terms of how the Warhammer world should work. I don;t see any way of ensuring a permanent alliance or vassel state kind of setup that would be sufficiently workable to feel right.
Careless Orc Costs Lives!
actually there have been several civil wars throughout the empires history. Although the main reason to create them would be territory. The empire has the largest portion of land compared to anyone, it would be better if they were split up to stop them having a huge advantage over other factions.
btw in kingdoms the crusader campaign has set diplomacy maybe you could set it so that they wont declare war (unless the player does it) also you might be able to get it so that its Order vs Chaos
For Middenheim & The Empire!
Anyone except CDwarfs, Lizardmen, Orcs, Chaos, Araby or TK...Originally Posted by Enthes
Lizardmen have most of there land abandened and Orcs or Chaos land is divided and fights amonghst itsself. though im not sure how you are doing the campaign so i may be wrongOriginally Posted by Jubal_Barca
For Middenheim & The Empire!
There is not necessarily any advantage in a wargame of having the largest territory. Yes..you can raise a larger army... but if you are surrounded by hostile and aggressive enemies, you also have to defend the largest border.
The Empire would play out pretty much as a faction to be nibbled away at by all it's foes, and would be quite trickey to ensure that you had goiven enough thought to what happens at home when you start trying to amass a single army to go conquering.
Careless Orc Costs Lives!
Yeah, the Empire may have a lot of territory but it has a lot of enemies.
To name a few :
Orc Waaagh's attack the Empire frequently
Chaos Warhosts invade the Empire once in a while
Chaos warbands roam across the empire's borders
The forrests are being inhabited by herds of Beastmen
The Empire is also attacked from within, it has several chaos cults
There are Skaven living under cities of the Empire that can attack the Empire whenever they want
Their position seems pretty similar as the HRE position in vanilla MTW2, and fighting war at several fronts at the same time is not an enviable situation.
The idea with certain units only being recruitable locally is a great idea, and it works out really well in other mods. It's easily codable aswell.
hmm thinking about it you are right they will probberbly play much like the romens in BI constantly under attack and never time to amass a real attack force. least it will be a challenge
For Middenheim & The Empire!
Indeed. What might have been nice would be something like the RTW Senate system (the factions are initially united, but at some point one of them might make a grap for the supreme power and the others might either join together to fight the ursurper or make their own attempts, both of it could happen in RTW, or so I´ve ben told - I never experienced the former)) but that´s not possible in M2TW. So a unified Empire works best, I think.Originally Posted by Bwian
A question: Do you need any voice actors for the empire at all? You can use the HRE ones, they always refer to "the empire" anyway.
The HRE faction also refers to the Kaiser and the Reich (especially on the diplomocatic screen). So it may need replacing.
4 Seasons (6 Empires battle for supremecy); 3.0 version
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=172698 (Thread)Total War Eras (start at 970, 1080, 1200, 1300, 1400, or 1500); 2.4 version
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2165 (Download mod)
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=253 (Forum)Eras Total Conquest (start at 1230, 1346, 1547); 1.2 version
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=1820 (Download)
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