To 1.2 or not to 1.2? That is the question.

[SpencerH]

After RTW I was determined not to buy M2TW until some time had passed and reviews were in. Based on the types of comments I've seen, it doesnt appear that M2TW is any (or much of) an improvement on RTW. Despite my resolve, I recently broke down and finally purchased the game.

Again, based on the comments here at the org, it doesnt appear to me that 1.2 is a very completed version. So, given that I want to give M2TW the best chance of being a success for me, should I wait for v1.3 (when will it be out?) or play 1.2, with the possibility that I will be disappointed by the bugs and say goodbye to TW forever.

Keep in mind I loved STW and MTW but hated RTW (with its emphasis on style v substance).

[sapi]

If you've got the game, there's no reason to play without 1.2

I'd be tempted to say play it with 1.2 anyway - it's definitely not perfect, but if you keep waiting for the next patch you'll never be satisfied...

Any major issues you have with the game's style are unlikely to be fixed by a patch, anyway.

[Noir]

You might get some of "your money back" through modifications - there are quite a few out - experience says though that they mature about 2 years after initial game release. However, i agree with Sapi - if the style of the game doesn't apply to your taste then no patch will make you happy. For all intents and purposes M2 is to RTW what MTW was to STW: an improved version.

Many Thanks

Noir

[Bijo]

I have reinstalled M2TW and finally applied the second patch. I am not much impressed. However, it appears to be a "better" version than any of its previous ones.

The download required much time as the patch's size is roughly similar to that of a CD. The question to put forth is whether appliance of the patch is beneficial enough. If I am to answer this, 'no' would outweigh 'yes'.

After RTW I was determined not to buy M2TW until some time had passed and reviews were in. Based on the types of comments I've seen, it doesnt appear that M2TW is any (or much of) an improvement on RTW. Despite my resolve, I recently broke down and finally purchased the game.

Thus far -- personally -- I think RTW (1.5) better than M2TW (1.2), and here is a certain logic thereto as a '1.5' > a '1.2' or at least that is to be.

[redriver]

but. why are ppl comparin' m2tw to RTW? wouldn't it be more fair to compare to the original MTW instead? besides the graphics and performance there's no point really. I don't think RTW was bad given the period it was set in. don't compare apples to oranges compare m2 to m1 TW IMO.

[SpencerH]

If you've got the game, there's no reason to play without 1.2

I'd be tempted to say play it with 1.2 anyway - it's definitely not perfect, but if you keep waiting for the next patch you'll never be satisfied...

Any major issues you have with the game's style are unlikely to be fixed by a patch, anyway.

Hmmm. I didnt mean that I would play 1.0 instead of 1.2. Rather that I'd wait and play 1.3 instead of 1.2 in order to avoid what appear to be some pretty big bugs with 1.2 (now that I've got it in my hands I'm finding the idea of waiting a little more time to be possible).

I agree that gameplay issues are not normally addressed in patches but some bugs are "game enders" fo me.

[Odin]

After RTW I was determined not to buy M2TW until some time had passed and reviews were in. Based on the types of comments I've seen, it doesnt appear that M2TW is any (or much of) an improvement on RTW. Despite my resolve, I recently broke down and finally purchased the game.

Again, based on the comments here at the org, it doesnt appear to me that 1.2 is a very completed version. So, given that I want to give M2TW the best chance of being a success for me, should I wait for v1.3 (when will it be out?) or play 1.2, with the possibility that I will be disappointed by the bugs and say goodbye to TW forever.

Keep in mind I loved STW and MTW but hated RTW (with its emphasis on style v substance).

I didnt get RTW because I dont care for the roman period. I generally dont buy PC games anymore until well after release, a patch or two and complimentary mods.

As far as improvements, well I think MTW2 isnt going to evolve much more until the addon comes out, so pretty much what you see is what you get. Patch up to 1.2, get a mod (I reccommend LTC) and have a go.

Yeah, some of the AI stuff is hogwash, but to be blunt the total war games can be approached two ways. You can go "total war" from the get go and you will win, fast, 95% of the time with whatever faction you choose. Or you envoke some house rules for limited starting conquest.

You do the later, on VH VH and you'll get a decent game.

[SpencerH]

I have reinstalled M2TW and finally applied the second patch. I am not much impressed. However, it appears to be a "better" version than any of its previous ones.

The download required much time as the patch's size is roughly similar to that of a CD. The question to put forth is whether appliance of the patch is beneficial enough. If I am to answer this, 'no' would outweigh 'yes'.


Thus far -- personally -- I think RTW (1.5) better than M2TW (1.2), and here is a certain logic thereto as a '1.5' > a '1.2' or at least that is to be.

Luckily for me a cd sized download is not an issue for me. I dont remember what version of RTW I gave up on. It was certainly after playing the bigger mods (none of which could save the poor gameplay IMO).

[SpencerH]

but. why are ppl comparin' m2tw to RTW? wouldn't it be more fair to compare to the original MTW instead? besides the graphics and performance there's no point really. I don't think RTW was bad given the period it was set in. don't compare apples to oranges compare m2 to m1 TW IMO.

I'm not ignoring your comment but I dont want to get into RTW bashing (I did that enough while it was a current game - to no noticable effect).

[SpencerH]

I didnt get RTW because I dont care for the roman period. I generally dont buy PC games anymore until well after release, a patch or two and complimentary mods.

As far as improvements, well I think MTW2 isnt going to evolve much more until the addon comes out, so pretty much what you see is what you get. Patch up to 1.2, get a mod (I reccommend LTC) and have a go.

Yeah, some of the AI stuff is hogwash, but to be blunt the total war games can be approached two ways. You can go "total war" from the get go and you will win, fast, 95% of the time with whatever faction you choose. Or you envoke some house rules for limited starting conquest.

You do the later, on VH VH and you'll get a decent game.

An interesting point. I actually play all TW games with 'house rules' that include not attacking a peaceful neighbor. The tactical AI has never been truely good enough to deal with aggressive players.

[Odin]

The tactical AI has never been truely good enough to deal with aggressive players.

This is still the case with MTW2.

Get 1.2 running, get LTC, take the turks on a long campaign and these house rules:

1. never dow a faction of the same religion

2. for the first 40 turns, dont dow AI factions at all

3. Dont do anything ridiculously out of faction charecter (Examples: occupying rebel held Dublin, making a treaty with the Pope whereby he pays you florins). You get the gist.

Keep it on h/vh and you should have a nice game.

[HoreTore]

Well, the major bugs were fixed by the 1.2 patch. What remains, are some minor issues as well as a harder difficulty.

Oh, and some unit rebalancing after the shield bug was fixed.

[danobnano]

cool

[icek]

i prefer agressive ai from 1.1 but dont like fact that you need dimounted feudals to beat peasants so its up to you.

[Rhedd]

I think if you download 1.2, just go play the game, and DO NOT READ THE FORUMS, patch 1.3 will be out before you even notice the small bugs that remain in the game.

Seriously, nothing ruins the fun of a game faster than researching bugs on a forum. The problems that are still in this game after 1.2 are minor, and take some time to even notice, if you ever do.

Play the game. Have fun. Worry less.

[Bijo]

Luckily for me a cd sized download is not an issue for me. I dont remember what version of RTW I gave up on. It was certainly after playing the bigger mods (none of which could save the poor gameplay IMO).

I find RTW 1.5 very playable and well done. In fact, I would enjoy it more than M2TW 1.2, truly. But M2TW 1.2 is (or can be) adequately enjoyable either way. What Rhedd says must be heeded, though. It is advisable to not check any information regarding the patches, etc., and simply play the game. There are still certain (minor) issues to be resolved, but it will be so soon enough.

[PapaNasty]

I thoroughly enjoyed RTW, BI and the alexander add-ons. And I also really enjoy M2TW.

Basically, you have to take a game for what it IS, not what YOU think it should be (or could be). Simple fact, this is how it is. In the first few "versions" (i.e RTW and M2TW) of a new game engine, there are always going to be bugs and things people don't like. Thats just the way it is. The OP sounds like he's already made up his mind not to like the game, which is understandable looking at some of the threads on this forum

Myself, i really didn't noticed many of the bugs in patch 1.02 of M2TW at all until I bothered to look in the forum, then they became apparent, but nothing at all that was game-breaking. I can't even see why people say that defending settlements is nearly impossble because you can't place units properly, because I have no issues doing that. Sure, some things are not realistic, but the game would be pretty boring if it was

I would suggest, for the OP, that as he has the game, try it. Its a waste of money to have it sit on the shelf waiting for patch 1.3, which really will not change much in terms of the gameplay of the game engine. Also, don't expect 1.3 or even the Kingdoms expansion to be the answer to your dreams for this game, or you will be disappointed and probably will give up on the TW series.

Find a game style that suits you, understand the game limitations, because every game has limitations, and you will enjoy it. Also, like others have said, a good mod can work wonders and really increase the value of the game. I myself tried LTC and DLV mods, and they are great, but i think that Stainless Steel really is the best. It keeps the game close to Vanilla, but adds things that I think should have been in the original game from the start.

I've also seen the game do things with the SS mod that vanilla never did (Scotland taking taking Ireland, Antwerp and Bruges, and invading Denmark...anyone? plus other things like it).

[ASPER THE GREAT]

I bought the game "BUT" don't want to play it yet . Spin it up it's great fun .

[Yun Dog]

you've bought it so you may as well at least get 2 games out of it

one now 1.2

and one when 1.3 comes out

and if youve got a decent machine - love those graphics No1 longest time jiggy jig - they are wonderful

then you'll be bored with it, (even the greatest graphics in the world dont make for replayibility, or take away frustration) put it in the cupboard forever, and go back to playing MTW

but see thats 2 plays vs 1 which is 100% more return

[Bijo]

A fascinating take, Yun. I still am to engage in MTW especially regarding what many think of it.

[SpencerH]

Well, the major bugs were fixed by the 1.2 patch. What remains, are some minor issues as well as a harder difficulty.

Oh, and some unit rebalancing after the shield bug was fixed.

A quick look at the 1.2 buglist/1.3 wishlist makes me disagree. The failure of CA to fix the annoying issues with the pursuit of routing troops (that drove me crazy in RTW) is enough alone to give me pause about playing this version.

[SpencerH]

I think if you download 1.2, just go play the game, and DO NOT READ THE FORUMS, patch 1.3 will be out before you even notice the small bugs that remain in the game.

Seriously, nothing ruins the fun of a game faster than researching bugs on a forum. The problems that are still in this game after 1.2 are minor, and take some time to even notice, if you ever do.

Play the game. Have fun. Worry less.

Again, I disagree. When the demo for RTW came out (to huge disappointment with the gameplay), the consensus was "its a demo, the game will be different". Well it wasnt. For many of us RTW was a waste of time. The 1.2 buglist contains many items that are not minor to me.

[SpencerH]

I thoroughly enjoyed RTW, BI and the alexander add-ons. And I also really enjoy M2TW.

Basically, you have to take a game for what it IS, not what YOU think it should be (or could be). Simple fact, this is how it is. In the first few "versions" (i.e RTW and M2TW) of a new game engine, there are always going to be bugs and things people don't like. Thats just the way it is. The OP sounds like he's already made up his mind not to like the game, which is understandable looking at some of the threads on this forum

Myself, i really didn't noticed many of the bugs in patch 1.02 of M2TW at all until I bothered to look in the forum, then they became apparent, but nothing at all that was game-breaking. I can't even see why people say that defending settlements is nearly impossble because you can't place units properly, because I have no issues doing that. Sure, some things are not realistic, but the game would be pretty boring if it was

I would suggest, for the OP, that as he has the game, try it. Its a waste of money to have it sit on the shelf waiting for patch 1.3, which really will not change much in terms of the gameplay of the game engine. Also, don't expect 1.3 or even the Kingdoms expansion to be the answer to your dreams for this game, or you will be disappointed and probably will give up on the TW series.

Find a game style that suits you, understand the game limitations, because every game has limitations, and you will enjoy it. Also, like others have said, a good mod can work wonders and really increase the value of the game. I myself tried LTC and DLV mods, and they are great, but i think that Stainless Steel really is the best. It keeps the game close to Vanilla, but adds things that I think should have been in the original game from the start.

I've also seen the game do things with the SS mod that vanilla never did (Scotland taking taking Ireland, Antwerp and Bruges, and invading Denmark...anyone? plus other things like it).

I'm glad you enjoyed RTW. I thought it stunk compared to the brilliance of the previous games and I wonder if M2TW will stink the same way. Even so I want to give this game the best chance to please me so I'm willing to wait. Purchasing it last week was just an amazon impulse buy with the gift certificates I accrue from using their credit card (I also preordered the new civ expansion - which I will play immediately ).


I noticed your sig. My last visit to the org (around the time of the demo release) was to argue against that travesty.

[SpencerH]

you've bought it so you may as well at least get 2 games out of it

one now 1.2

and one when 1.3 comes out

and if youve got a decent machine - love those graphics No1 longest time jiggy jig - they are wonderful

then you'll be bored with it, (even the greatest graphics in the world dont make for replayibility, or take away frustration) put it in the cupboard forever, and go back to playing MTW

but see thats 2 plays vs 1 which is 100% more return

Well thats kinda where I was heading but I wonder whether this will be the last TW for me if I'm disappointed by M2TW. I've gone back and played STW and MTW but without much satisfaction. After playing them so many times they are simply too easy.

[PapaNasty]

I also preordered the new civ expansion - which I will play immediately.


I noticed your sig. My last visit to the org (around the time of the demo release) was to argue against that travesty.

hehe, The Civilisation series is one of my all time favourites I've got Warlords already but didn't realise another espansion was out

And as for the elephants, I enjoy it despite the fact its not realistic... I leave it to the modders to work that one out

But seriously mate, if your disappointed with vanilla M2TW, the stainless steel mod is a good improvement over it. I know some people don't like getting mods for their games (some strange bullheaded thing about "how it should be like that in the box, i refuse to mod it"), but it takes literally nothing to install a good mod, and increases enjoyment a lot

[SpencerH]

hehe, The Civilisation series is one of my all time favourites I've got Warlords already but didn't realise another espansion was out

And as for the elephants, I enjoy it despite the fact its not realistic... I leave it to the modders to work that one out

But seriously mate, if your disappointed with vanilla M2TW, the stainless steel mod is a good improvement over it. I know some people don't like getting mods for their games (some strange bullheaded thing about "how it should be like that in the box, i refuse to mod it"), but it takes literally nothing to install a good mod, and increases enjoyment a lot

The next civ expansion will be out by the end of July.

I like mods well enough. I thought the RTW mods did a lot with poor starting material but they couldnt entice me to play the last expansion ( I dont even remember wgat it was called). It can be a problem installing a new TW version ontop of a mod though which is a bit of a pain.

[Didz]

Well thats kinda where I was heading but I wonder whether this will be the last TW for me if I'm disappointed by M2TW. I've gone back and played STW and MTW but without much satisfaction. After playing them so many times they are simply too easy.

The problem is that there is nothing else on the market at the minute that even remotely matches the TW series.

I find I quickly get fed up with other peoples attempts at historical strategy games and end up coming back to the TW series again.

[SpencerH]

The problem is that there is nothing else on the market at the minute that even remotely matches the TW series.

I find I quickly get fed up with other peoples attempts at historical strategy games and end up coming back to the TW series again.

I agree. I've never found another similar game to match the TW series (CIV is beyond comparison IMO) thats why RTW was so disappointing and why I'd like to give M2TW the best opportunity to impress.

[Silverhawk]

I know some people don't like getting mods for their games (some strange bullheaded thing about "how it should be like that in the box, i refuse to mod it"), but it takes literally nothing to install a good mod, and increases enjoyment a lot

Some mods increase enjoyment to some people. Equally though, to some, sifting through the trash to get to the good mods is a pain in the *ahem*. Suggesting that choosing not to get mods is bullheaded however, is rather rude. Honestly, while I've modded my own game (to a degree at least, slightly reduced pirates/Chivalric Knight "bandits", two turns per year, kings purse changes) I get kinda tired of seeing really good, informative threads devolve into "get this mod it fixes everything".

Anyway. For me, 1.2 made the game bearable again. I flat out refused to play it after 1.1 came out and waited for the patch, hoping beyond hope that it would fix most of the blatantly awful issues. I'd been looking forward to M2TW since I heard announcement of it's development, so it's not like deciding I wouldn't play was an easy cast-aside either. Now, even unmodded it's a fun game for me, it still has a few/many issues, but I don't see any mods that fix the issues that I find disagreeable as they're all AI/pathing troubles. Right now, I'm getting a great deal of enjoyment for my money... but I'm still not buying Kingdoms until it goes budget though, that way it'll have been patched to a working state.

[zaher]

I agree. I've never found another similar game to match the TW series (CIV is beyond comparison IMO) thats why RTW was so disappointing and why I'd like to give M2TW the best opportunity to impress.

Hearts Of Iron 2 and its expansion from developers of Europa Universalis is the game you can easy add to Civ and TW series, but it is about 2d world war. It is also an example how same developers can make absolutely different games on basically same engine. From historical point it is much more accurate. I dont even look at Civ or TW(not including Shogun) like they are historically accurate games, where you can learn georaphy or history during the playtime.


Howewer, CA can be happy - they made a game with PLAYABLE SP. After Shogun i cant play SP MTW and RTW at all. But at least i played MTW MP a lot, and if it was something special about this game - it was its MP part. Its sad , that now, when we have even better ( in MP terms ) game MTW2, too few players are playing it now, cause of great fault called RTW ( which was unplayable both in SP and MP for me ). But even in SP MTW2 is more enjoyable than MTW and RTW because of its presentation, voice acting, things which not tied much to AI programming

And yes, Civ 4 and Hearts of Iron 2 have much better AI than MTW2 if not to say the best. So , my advise - dont bother with TW AI and play MP

About the patch - it fixed shield bug and two-hand bug, and its definetly fixed routing units capturing problem, my highlanders capturing dismounted knights and crossbowmens on foot and feudal knights can capture every infantry unit. Thats all i wanted from it. Now i can enjoy MP and kill time in SP.