EB newbie

**frapast1981** · 06-29-2007, 13:26

Hello to all

i have a little question regarding spies. How can i use them to incite revolte in an enemy town?

Is this useful or not paying the investiment?
Thank you in advice

P.S: EB is a fantastic mod, a world in his own respect!

**kalkwerk** · 06-29-2007, 13:36

As soon as you got one spy into the city you can observe what order it has (70 % means there is a revolt risk). Just get as many spies as possible into the city, you may also use assasins to sabotage happines, health and law-buildings.

Wether it pays off? Hard to say, more a question of your style of play.

What definately pays off is using spies to open gates before assaults, but by many considered a cheat.

**frapast1981** · 06-29-2007, 14:07

But when the revolt will begin?
What conditions must be observed?

Thank you Kalkwerk for you fast response!

**Conradus** · 06-29-2007, 14:17

I've found out that when a city is more then 2 turns at 65% loyalty, it'll revolt. Spies are very usefull when you're playing Bactria (or any small kingdom around the Arche) and trying not to break your alliance with Seleucia, but still capturing some cities.

**frapast1981** · 06-29-2007, 14:46

Thank you very much Conradus.
What happen if i use this sistem against Eleutheroi?
Does it succeded?

**Thaatu** · 06-29-2007, 15:33

Rebels can't rebel. ...Okay, that was very badly put, but true.

**The Celt** · 06-29-2007, 18:52

Originally Posted by kalkwerk

What definately pays off is using spies to open gates before assaults, but by many considered a cheat.

Why is it considered a cheat? This happened in History all the time! God I'm so tired of everything that involves fighting a battle with a distinct advantage being labeled as a "cheat". Come on! Next we'll see people telling you that killing the enemy general on purpose is a "cheat" or hell even declaring war a "cheat". There's house rules and then there's just being asinine pedantic about the game. I use auto_win, Spies to open gate/encourage revolts, elite stacks, bribed huge stacks and disbanded them, and I've even sapped the Walls of Rome! I'm such a cheater!

**Watchman** · 06-29-2007, 21:23

By what I know of it, just about the most common gambits for taking fortified places were launching surprise attacks to gain entry before the garrison could react propery and arranging "inside jobs" to let the attackers in. Outright sieges took awfully long and were often strategically impossible or beyond the means of the attacker, and tended to be tremendously expensive even if succesful. Thus, if commanders could use some cunning trick to bypass or shorten the process they mostly definitely tried it.

Bribery was also common for all the aforementioned purposes, and sometimes the attacker could just persuade, intimidate or browbeat the garrison to surrender.

The RTW spies are a decent enough abstraction of that sort of stuff IMO.

**The Celt** · 06-29-2007, 21:36

Originally Posted by Watchman

By what I know of it, just about the most common gambits for taking fortified places were launching surprise attacks to gain entry before the garrison could react propery and arranging "inside jobs" to let the attackers in. Outright sieges took awfully long and were often strategically impossible or beyond the means of the attacker, and tended to be tremendously expensive even if succesful. Thus, if commanders could use some cunning trick to bypass or shorten the process they mostly definitely tried it.

Bribery was also common for all the aforementioned purposes, and sometimes the attacker could just persuade, intimidate or browbeat the garrison to surrender.

The RTW spies are a decent enough abstraction of that sort of stuff IMO.

My point exactly! What I don't get is why CA had given Assassins the ability to sabotage a building instead of Spies? Perhaps they needed to give them something to do other than assassinating people.

**grudzio** · 06-29-2007, 21:44

Can this "revolt" effect of enemy spies be reduced by placing my spies in the city?

**blacksnail** · 06-29-2007, 22:02

Yes, your own spies will counterspy in your own cities. Diplomats in your own cities will prevent enemy diplomats from bribing you. Depending on the faction or the temperament of the current faction leader, I sometimes have one of each in every city I possess.

**kalkwerk** · 06-30-2007, 09:27

Originally Posted by The Celt

Why is it considered a cheat? This happened in History all the time! God I'm so tired of everything that involves fighting a battle with a distinct advantage being labeled as a "cheat". Come on! Next we'll see people telling you that killing the enemy general on purpose is a "cheat" or hell even declaring war a "cheat". There's house rules and then there's just being asinine pedantic about the game. I use auto_win, Spies to open gate/encourage revolts, elite stacks, bribed huge stacks and disbanded them, and I've even sapped the Walls of Rome! I'm such a cheater!

I do it myself to some extent for the reasons you stated.

Just said that on different forums its considered a cheat by "many". Of course houserule will be a better term.

That said, using the spies extensively together with attacking the ai in its rear lands and using auto-battle and mercenaries - well the ai has no strategy to counter that.