EB newbie

[frapast1981]

Hello to all

i have a little question regarding spies. How can i use them to incite revolte in an enemy town?
Is this useful or not paying the investiment?
Thank you in advice

P.S: EB is a fantastic mod, a world in his own respect!

[kalkwerk]

As soon as you got one spy into the city you can observe what order it has (70 % means there is a revolt risk). Just get as many spies as possible into the city, you may also use assasins to sabotage happines, health and law-buildings.

Wether it pays off? Hard to say, more a question of your style of play.

What definately pays off is using spies to open gates before assaults, but by many considered a cheat.

[frapast1981]

But when the revolt will begin?
What conditions must be observed?

Thank you Kalkwerk for you fast response!

[Conradus]

I've found out that when a city is more then 2 turns at 65% loyalty, it'll revolt. Spies are very usefull when you're playing Bactria (or any small kingdom around the Arche) and trying not to break your alliance with Seleucia, but still capturing some cities.

[frapast1981]

Thank you very much Conradus.
What happen if i use this sistem against Eleutheroi?
Does it succeded?

[Thaatu]

Rebels can't rebel. ...Okay, that was very badly put, but true.

[frapast1981]

Thank you Thaatu

i thought that the city controll will shift to you if you use enough spies..

i have so much to learn about EB.....

Thanks to everyone

[bovi]

Keep in mind that cities get a lot of law bonuses in EB, making it trickier for spies to enter and half or more will likely die if they're fresh from recruitment. You might do well to keep your spies in one of your settlements with markets to make them trained and/or spy a little on characters outside of settlements before sending them in, increasing their chance.

[Lovejoy]

I love spies, especielly against the selues. I never fought about using Assasins, thanks for the tip!

BTW always remember to activate the script everytime you start a camp or load a save!!

[kemozz]

when using spies, agents or diplomates make sure they get the "trained" trait before sending them out on missions. actually, once they are trained keep them in a developed settlement or capital for a few more years untill they're over 30 years old. i try to use them togther with my legions. before attacking i send my spy forward wreck havoc with my agent and after i raid the settlement i'd either sue for peace or gift it to some other faction to create a buffer zone.

[The Celt]

What definately pays off is using spies to open gates before assaults, but by many considered a cheat.

Why is it considered a cheat? This happened in History all the time! God I'm so tired of everything that involves fighting a battle with a distinct advantage being labeled as a "cheat". Come on! Next we'll see people telling you that killing the enemy general on purpose is a "cheat" or hell even declaring war a "cheat". There's house rules and then there's just being asinine pedantic about the game. I use auto_win, Spies to open gate/encourage revolts, elite stacks, bribed huge stacks and disbanded them, and I've even sapped the Walls of Rome! I'm such a cheater!

[Watchman]

By what I know of it, just about the most common gambits for taking fortified places were launching surprise attacks to gain entry before the garrison could react propery and arranging "inside jobs" to let the attackers in. Outright sieges took awfully long and were often strategically impossible or beyond the means of the attacker, and tended to be tremendously expensive even if succesful. Thus, if commanders could use some cunning trick to bypass or shorten the process they mostly definitely tried it.

Bribery was also common for all the aforementioned purposes, and sometimes the attacker could just persuade, intimidate or browbeat the garrison to surrender.

The RTW spies are a decent enough abstraction of that sort of stuff IMO.

[The Celt]

By what I know of it, just about the most common gambits for taking fortified places were launching surprise attacks to gain entry before the garrison could react propery and arranging "inside jobs" to let the attackers in. Outright sieges took awfully long and were often strategically impossible or beyond the means of the attacker, and tended to be tremendously expensive even if succesful. Thus, if commanders could use some cunning trick to bypass or shorten the process they mostly definitely tried it.

Bribery was also common for all the aforementioned purposes, and sometimes the attacker could just persuade, intimidate or browbeat the garrison to surrender.

The RTW spies are a decent enough abstraction of that sort of stuff IMO.

My point exactly! What I don't get is why CA had given Assassins the ability to sabotage a building instead of Spies? Perhaps they needed to give them something to do other than assassinating people.

[grudzio]

Can this "revolt" effect of enemy spies be reduced by placing my spies in the city?

[blacksnail]

Yes, your own spies will counterspy in your own cities. Diplomats in your own cities will prevent enemy diplomats from bribing you. Depending on the faction or the temperament of the current faction leader, I sometimes have one of each in every city I possess.

[Thaatu]

Btw, when a spy incites a revolt, there is a chance that he dies in the uprising. It's risky business with just one spy.

[kalkwerk]

Why is it considered a cheat? This happened in History all the time! God I'm so tired of everything that involves fighting a battle with a distinct advantage being labeled as a "cheat". Come on! Next we'll see people telling you that killing the enemy general on purpose is a "cheat" or hell even declaring war a "cheat". There's house rules and then there's just being asinine pedantic about the game. I use auto_win, Spies to open gate/encourage revolts, elite stacks, bribed huge stacks and disbanded them, and I've even sapped the Walls of Rome! I'm such a cheater!

I do it myself to some extent for the reasons you stated.

Just said that on different forums its considered a cheat by "many". Of course houserule will be a better term.

That said, using the spies extensively together with attacking the ai in its rear lands and using auto-battle and mercenaries - well the ai has no strategy to counter that.

[grudzio]

Yes, your own spies will counterspy in your own cities. Diplomats in your own cities will prevent enemy diplomats from bribing you. Depending on the faction or the temperament of the current faction leader, I sometimes have one of each in every city I possess.

Thanks for the info.