Imperial Diet IV

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Seconded.

In addition, I may as well re-post the list of Crusader Counts here for convenience:

Antioch - Conrad Salier
Damascus - Karl Zirn
Adana - Matthias Steffin
Acre - Elberhard
Aleppo - Fredricus von Hamburg
Edessa - Jan von Hamburg

[TinCow]

Once again I will state that this legislation, now identified as Charter Amendment 11.3, is an attempt to give benefits to Outremer which makes it stronger and more powerful than any Duchy. As King Salier has pointed out, the King of Outremer will gain no advantage from this legislation, as he has been forced to abandon his House to take up this post. However, this is not required by any other Crusading Count. As a result, this legislation gives all Crusading Counts access to SEVEN edict proposals, while those of us who remain to protect the Reich have access to no more than FOUR edict proposals. This does not even take into account the extra Diet influence these Counts receive as a result of their Eastern service. This is a blatant attempt to give Outremer priority over all other Houses. If the King of Outremer wishes to propose legislation that would correct the legislative inequality for himself alone, maybe that could be considered fair and equitable. However, giving this power to ALL Crusading Counts is a direct assault on the very institution of the Ducal Houses.

As for an inability to legislate in Outremer, don't make me laugh. There are SEVEN Electors out there already, giving instant access to SEVEN personal edicts and all TWELVE Ducal Edicts. If none of the Electors believes Outremer is important enough to use their own personal edicts or to propose it in their proper Ducal Houses, then surely Outremer is not in any dire need of management.

[Stig]

I agree with you on one thing Lothar, I do not understand why Crusader Counts get extra influence. Hell, simple counts have more influence than Dukes, that should not happen.
Outremer is now settled and a part of the Reich, there's no more use to give that extra influence in my opinion. It's strange that Counts have the same influence as Dukes.

[TinCow]

Indeed, Ansehelm. Regardless of our past quarrels, I know we both seek to do what is best for our Houses, and I respect you for that. As such, I will use my personal edict to propose legislation to counter this growing erosion of the power of the Duchies.

Charter Amendment 11.4:

Clause 3.10 is amended to read as follows (changes in bold):

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +6 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 4 points):
Duke: +3
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

Charter Amendment 9.1 is amended to read as follows (changes in bold):

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward). The King of Outremer may propose up to 3 personal Edicts during each Diet session, but 2 must specifically deal with Outremer affairs.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain +1 influence, but only if they are not already a Count in their Duchy, and only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 6 influence for all but the Emperor remains.

This legislation favors no person and no House. All Duchies benefit equally and all Dukes are restored to their rightful place as figures of power and status. As it stands now, Steward Ansehelm is correct, Dukes have no more influence than Crusader Counts. This is unacceptable. No Count should ever be able to command as much influence in the Diet as a Duke. Even if we were simply to increase the Dukes' influence, that would not be enough, for two Crusader Counts alone would already wield more power than a single Duke. This is equally absurd. Crusader Counts remain under the authority of the Dukes and they should never be able to wield his level of power.

In deference to King Salier's complaints about legislative ability, and to show that I am not an unfair man, this amendment gives him the ability to create two extra edicts to aid Outremer. Surely this will solve his dilemma and ensure that Outremer is effectively managed. It is certainly a far better solution than making Outremer more powerful than the Duchies.

[Stig]

I second you proposed CA 11.4 Lothar, that should balance out things. Dukes are the most important after the Kaiser, tho I propose you change somethings:
First, the King of the Outremer should have the same influence as the Dukes, afterall he is just as important and reigns an even larger part of the Reich.
Secondly, I think that the leader of a crusade should gain an extra bonus point. Afterall what he does, and I know people won't agree, is for the greater good of Christianity. This leader should ofcourse also keep this influence after the crusade has ended.

[Stuperman]

11.3, eh, I wonder though..a hoarse cough erupts from Gerhard's lungs, momentarily scielencing him..pardon me, I wonder though Given that the Kingship of the Outremer can change during the course of the diet session, Should some provision be set out as to which King the edicts fall under?

Or make the Time of Kingship re-announcement Official? to co-inside(sp) with the opening of the Diet session? after the voting is done?

edit: Lothar makes a good point, should not the crusader counts also have to give up thier house loyalties as well? (OOC: this could lead to problems for some houses, Bavaria , for example would only have 2 electors if this happens, effectively preventing any edicts from them/us.)