Suggestion Box

[Taranaich]

I've had a couple of offers from people regarding content for the mod and suggestions, so I thought rather than have the ideas lost in other threads anyone could post their thoughts and ideas here!

These can include units, buildings, characters, traits, ancillaries, events and anything which would make gameplay richer and more interesting. I already have a good number of interesting characters and ancillaries who I'll put in a thread when I have their pictures done, but any input is most welcome for consideration.

[GrimFinger]

Rather than calling the Picts "The Pictish Confederacy," which makes them sound too civilized, rather than as a bunch of tribes that war upon one another, why not call them simply "The Picts," or "The Savage Picts," or "The Pictish Wilderness?"

Outsiders might well lump all Picts together, but the individual Pictish tribes would be distinguishable to other Picts, even if outsiders couldn't tell them apart in all instances. For that matter, why not have some Pictish tribes that look very, very similar to one another, even identical, yet have different stats? This could help to account for why outsiders often lump different tribes of Picts into one generic category.

At least part of the mystique about the endless Pictish Wilderness is that the Picts are only part of what collectively contributes to the mystique and danger of the area. Having not played the base game, before, but as one who may buy the game just to play your mod, I don't have familiarity with how the core game and battle sequences work. Would it be possible to have wild animals that also fight side by side with the Picts? Or which might attack both sides, Picts and outsiders, in a given battle - particularly in a forested area?

I think that the Pictish Wilderness should be an area shrouded in mystery - many mysteries. To enter it, there should be a sense of great trepidation. It is a land of great superstition, and creatures of most any type could be found there, as it should be largely unexplored by outsiders.

If you base the Picts off of North American or South American Indian tribes, then let it be the tribes with their myths come to life, to a large degree. Bring the land, itself, alive, if possible. Perhaps have areas of quicksand. It shouldn't be immediately visible or detectable, and yet cost some troops attacking in Pictish territory. The Picts could be immune to such, since they know the land.

If you include Pictish attacks on other players' holdings/areas, then the Picts should seem countless in number, ceaseless in attacking. No rest from the Picts, especially if they try to reclaim Pictish lands.

Maybe some of the Pictish tribes live in tepees and others live in caves. Having some totems or totem poles for variety's sake could help to set the atmosphere.

[christof139]

In the books and Howard's other writings, the Picts did eventually unite into a large Confederacy, but during Conan's time this was only attempted by an Evil Pictish Shaman type of fellow I do believe, forget the name though.

I think Howard states or implies that sometimes a couple or few tribes of Picts would unite to raid Aquilonia or other Pictish tribes.

The great Confederacy of the Picts came after Conan's time supposedly I do believe.

Chris

[Taranaich]

Rather than calling the Picts "The Pictish Confederacy," which makes them sound too civilized, rather than as a bunch of tribes that war upon one another, why not call them simply "The Picts," or "The Savage Picts," or "The Pictish Wilderness?"

I've thought long and hard about it, and ultimately I think the The Pictish Confederacy is probably the one I'm going with. In addition to Howard calling large groups of Picts confederacy (he says the Wolf Picts were a Confederacy of smaller tribes, for instance), I think calling them something like "The Picts" or "The Pictish Wilderness" makes the Picts look kind of a united front. Calling them the Pictish Confederacy just says that they're a collection of allied tribes of Picts, and allows for independent settlements to be considered "Picts" too.

This is not final, though: I'm planning on doing something similar for the Cimmerians, Aesir and Vanir, but I don't know what the best naming convention would be for them as yet. I might eventually just go back with the simple "The Picts" if I can't get anything worked out for the other nations.

Outsiders might well lump all Picts together, but the individual Pictish tribes would be distinguishable to other Picts, even if outsiders couldn't tell them apart in all instances. For that matter, why not have some Pictish tribes that look very, very similar to one another, even identical, yet have different stats? This could help to account for why outsiders often lump different tribes of Picts into one generic category.

Very much my intention. Each Pictish region has it's own tribe of Picts, who are largely similar, but will have different patterns which would be just a chaotic mess to outsiders, but easily distinguishable to other Picts. Thus we'll have Wolf Picts, Eagle Picts, Hawk Picts etc, in addition to their chosen Braves.

At least part of the mystique about the endless Pictish Wilderness is that the Picts are only part of what collectively contributes to the mystique and danger of the area. Having not played the base game, before, but as one who may buy the game just to play your mod, I don't have familiarity with how the core game and battle sequences work. Would it be possible to have wild animals that also fight side by side with the Picts? Or which might attack both sides, Picts and outsiders, in a given battle - particularly in a forested area?

The Pictish Wilderness will be a dangerous place to be sure: most non-barbarian nations who stray in will suffer casualties from disease, wild animals, poison and natural dangers like quicksand, swamps and gulleys. This will be represented by attrition: every turn an army stands in a Pictish region, their numbers will start to fall as their soldiers are lost to the dangers of the Wilderness. The Picts will obviously not lose soldiers since they know the land: barbarians such as the Cimmerians will lose the occassional warrior, but not to the extent of a civilized nation such as Aquilonia. The only safe places for civilized folk will be forts and settlements, so they must establish or conquer them so they don't lose all their men. Of course, forts are only a temporary measure against the Picts, and as soon as you take a Pictish settlement, you're likely to be crowded with hordes of savages.

Animals will fight with the Picts, either as trained creatures like war wolves and bull apes, or as summoned by powerful shamans like the Ghost Snake and Sabretooth.

[Senta]

great idea for a mod Taranaich! i just only read about it on conan.com

couple of suggestions:

Aquilonian unit: western provinces rangers (as seen in Beyond the black River)

Aquilonian unit: Black Dragons, King's bodyguard.

Pictish unit: bloodcrazed painted berserker type unit?

variety is a key ;) i am not a texturer, but if you need concept art, let me know. especially for Black Dragons.

[Taranaich]

Aquilonia will indeed have rangers, as well as borderers. The Black Dragons will serve as the Aquilonian general's retinue, although more squadrons can be recruited (though at considerable cost to the taxpayer).

The Picts will have some pretty tough units, but the most terrifying of the lot will be the Shark Braves. Shark Picts are generally fanatical and bloodthristy, but certain Shark Picts embark on a rite of passage which requires them to kill a shark: such a warrior would be deadly and formidable indeed!

[Senta]

good stuff, can't wait for it. like i said, if you need any concept art, let me know.

[Dimeola]

what about legends......the myths of Hyboria.......writeups about the economy, politics, religion.....paint the world in rich hues, immerse us in the splendor. Even and esp the military traditions, strategy and tactics of the kingdoms.

[Taranaich]

what about legends......the myths of Hyboria.......writeups about the economy, politics, religion.....paint the world in rich hues, immerse us in the splendor. Even and esp the military traditions, strategy and tactics of the kingdoms.

Wouldn't you know, I've taken a short break from the skinning to do exactly that!

I'm planning on giving the mod some strong RPG overtones, in that you feel like you're "playing the role" of the faction leader, to help immerse in the world. How you play the game is up to you, naturally, but I think it would be fun to give the generals and captains more character, so you feel more connected to them. There will be a lot of interesting and fun traits, like "enjoys the poetry of Rinaldo (is liked by the people but is a terrible administrator)", "dabbles with the Lotus (reduces certain traits that require concentration) and "prefers buxom women (meaning princesses with the "buxom" trait will be more likely to manipulate him)"

I've been working on biographies and organizing traits/ancillaries for the faction leaders, so that you can either "role-play" as the leader, or even take the role of Mitra, Set, Crom or any other deity to "influence" events if you like. Obviously some characters like Conan and Tarascus are well-established, but some characters will require a little more imagination to realise. I'll be posting a few more previews regarding the faction leaders, religion, mercenaries and special buildings within the month.

[GrnEyedDvl]

Atlantis:

Conan is supposed to be a descendant of King Kull of Atlantis. I dont know if you have read King Kull by Howard or not but its in much the same style. One idea might be to include Atlantis and use the World is Round event.

[Taranaich]

I don't think it would be possible to include Atlantis or the rest of the Thurian Age into the mod, considering the Great Cataclysm changed the entire geography of the world, with Atlantis sinking beneath the waves and the Pictish Isles becoming the Rockies, to say nothing of the Thurian/Hyborian mainland. If everything goes well, I might make a mini "Thurian Age" provincial map with some of the nations renamed (Cimmerians = Atlanteans, Aquilonians = Valusians, Lemurians = Hyrkanians etc) and some new provinces, just as an interesting extra.

Fear not though, Kull and Atlantis will be referenced in the mod in some fashion. The "World is Round" event might be useful for the nameless continents and islands across the sea Conan goes to late in his life, which would be populated by mysterious and eldritch civilizations as yet unknown...

[Helgi]

Just an idea for everyone interested in this mod and hope that Taranaich my like the idea , If you have a copy of the first Conan Book, around page 21; there should be a chapter called "The Hyborian Age, Part 1". Check it out and Taranaich, see if (you Choose or like) you can incorporate that into the mod?

[Spartan198]

I'm an avid Conan fan,so I figured I'd add a few suggestions/corrections -
(1) This might seem a little far-fetched,but since the Hyborian Age took place during the last Ice Age,you might consider replacing elephants with mammoths?
(2) Corinthia,Brythunia,the Border Kingdom,and Hyrkania weren't unified kingdoms,but loose confederations of city-states. How that would play into a Total War faction,I don't really know at the moment (maybe a higher chance of settlements rebelling than in a unified kingdom?).
(3) Personally,Aquilonia always felt more Greco-Roman to me,so maybe compliment its medieval culture with some Greco-Roman elements such as Legionary infantry?
(4) If you want to remain as Howardian as possible,cut Acheron from you list of possible factions. The Acheronean Empire fell some 3 millenia before Conan's time.

If you want a near tell-all of Conan and his world,get a book called "Conan: the Ultimate Guide to the World's Most Savage Barbarian". It'll tell you just about everything REH wrote on everything Hyborian

[Ged]

If you need any ideas for some maps, I found a site which has a fair few maps of the Hyborian World.
http://hyboria.xoth.net/maps/index.htm

[Taranaich]

Greetings SpartanGlory, good to see another fan of big C!

(1) This might seem a little far-fetched,but since the Hyborian Age took place during the last Ice Age,you might consider replacing elephants with mammoths?

I intend to include both. Howard refers to elephants a few times, implying that they're common in the lands of the Hyrkanians, which would mean anywhere west of Turan. Vendhya, Kosala, Iranistan, Turan, Hyrkania and Khitai will all be able to train elephants (Vendhya getting some particularly cool variations). However, Conan has also apparently seen a mastodon as according to Red Nails. Combined with the fact that the Hyborian Age has all manner of prehistoric beasties and it seems reasonable for mammoths to be around. Mammoths will be found in the northern reaches around the Vilayet, available to the Hyrkanians and Hyperboreans. Mastodons are more likely to be found in the Black Kingdoms and Pictish Wilderness.

Corinthia,Brythunia,the Border Kingdom,and Hyrkania weren't unified kingdoms,but loose confederations of city-states. How that would play into a Total War faction,I don't really know at the moment (maybe a higher chance of settlements rebelling than in a unified kingdom?).

There's extremely little information on the politics of these nations. The idea of them being confederacies of city-states is one created by the pastiches and comics, but because Howard explicitly refers to them as kingdoms I'm inclined to think of them as that. I think the idea of Corinthia being composed of city-states is because of a misunderstanding from Rogues in the House: the city Conan is in is referred to as "one of the city-states west of Zamora". On Howard's own map, immediately west of Zamora is Corinthia. While it would seem logical for the city state to then be in Corinthia, why didn't Howard just say so? Therefore, the implication is that the city-state of RitH is between Zamora and Corinthia, but too small or insignificant to be seen on the map.

However, I did like the idea of Corinthia & Brythunia being disunited, so in the mod those two nations will basically be composed of two "allied cities", with two independent cities in their territories. Uniting their territories will trigger an event which will boost the country's military and economy, but of course make them bigger targets for their bigger neighbours, and they're pretty likely to rebel when the going gets tough.

The Border Kingdom is basically a kingdom in name only, as most of the country is populated by outlaws and brigands, although it's no slouch militarily.

Hyrkania will be treated rather like Turan, except the cities will be on the far east, with nomadic tribes in the middle.

Personally,Aquilonia always felt more Greco-Roman to me,so maybe compliment its medieval culture with some Greco-Roman elements such as Legionary infantry?

Aquilonia will indeed have a few Greco-Roman elements, mostly on the campaign map: many buildings, officials and ancillaries will have a rather Romanesque feel. The military seems stolidly medieval, but a few remnants of Acheronian influence can be seen. I'm of the opinion that the Black Dragons and Black Legion are the modern evolution of Acheronian troops, as their version of the Praetorian Guard and Urban Cohorts respectively. Aquilonia will later have legions in the Hyborian Age, so they'll be available when a city and barracks becomes suitably advanced.

If you want to remain as Howardian as possible,cut Acheron from you list of possible factions. The Acheronean Empire fell some 3 millenia before Conan's time.

Indeed it did. The reason Acheron was in the "possible factions" list was because I was toying with the idea of an Acheronian sorcerer like Xaltotun being raised from the dead. Acheronians are apparently still around in not small numbers in the hills and dark places of Nemedia and Aquilonia, so it seemed possible for a resurgence of Acheronian patriotism in the wake of the Aquilonian-Nemedian war. However, I nixed that in favour of the Border Kingdom, I thought it would be better dealing in the "here and now" of the Hyborian Age.

If you want a near tell-all of Conan and his world,get a book called "Conan: the Ultimate Guide to the World's Most Savage Barbarian". It'll tell you just about everything REH wrote on everything Hyborian

I do have that book, it's a very good guide to the character and age, and Roy Thomas does a great job distinguishing the Howard from the pastiches.

[Spartan198]

I don't really have any modding experience or expertise,but I did start putting together a limited unit list for a possible "Hyboria: Total War" mod as kind of a sand box project. If you're interested,maybe I can convey some of my favorites here and you can look them over for ideas?
Also,I have excellent knowledge on military weaponry and equipment used by various cultures around the Mediterranean. If you have any questions,feel free to ask. I'd be happy to share any research with you.
And lastly,Wikipedia has an excellent article on the Hyborian Age that gives a detailed list of various cultures that the Hyborian kingdoms are patterned after. That might be of some use.

P.S. - Be sure to leave the south-eastern kingdom of Meru of your game map,as it was created by L. Sprague de Camp & Lin Carter,not REH.

[Taranaich]

I don't really have any modding experience or expertise,but I did start putting together a limited unit list for a possible "Hyboria: Total War" mod as kind of a sand box project. If you're interested,maybe I can convey some of my favorites here and you can look them over for ideas?

Sure thing, ideas are always good. I've already got a (sort of) unit list done, but I'd certainly be interested in seeing your ideas.

Also,I have excellent knowledge on military weaponry and equipment used by various cultures around the Mediterranean. If you have any questions,feel free to ask. I'd be happy to share any research with you.

Will do.

And lastly,Wikipedia has an excellent article on the Hyborian Age that gives a detailed list of various cultures that the Hyborian kingdoms are patterned after. That might be of some use.

Yup, I have that on the hard drive. It's a good reference.

P.S. - Be sure to leave the south-eastern kingdom of Meru of your game map,as it was created by L. Sprague de Camp & Lin Carter,not REH.

Meru will indeed not be appearing as a faction, neither will Uttara Kuru, Kambuja, Pathenia or anything like that. I *might* include some as regions or settlements to conquer, as even though Howard didn't invent them Uttara Kuru and Kambuja are vaguely Howardian, at least in name.

[Spartan198]

Most of my H:TW units are ripped right out of R:TW,but the following is a list of some of my favorite originals with a short description:

Aquilonia -
Bossonian archers - Lightly armored archers from the Aquilonian province of Bossonia. A number of the Conan stories mentioned the Bossonians as having quasi-legendary archers. They could be recruitable only in Bossonia,like how you could only recruit Rhodian slingers in the areas around Rhodes in R:TW.
Black Legion - Could be used as a field elite,opposite the Black Dragons as King's/General's Bodyguard,with both heavy infantry and cavalry regiments, like the Sacred Band of Carthage in R:TW.
Corinthia --
Levy,Phalanx,& Royal Halberbiers - An alternative to pikemen,using instead halberds over sarissas.
Armored Peltasts - Much like the Heavy Peltasts from R:TW,except they wear light chain or scale mail armor.
Picts --
Pictish Blood Maidens - The Picts are savage,and their women shouldn't be any different. Inspired mainly by Keara Knightly's appearence in the battle at the end of King Arthur.
Pictish Mercenaries - These could be recruitable by any faction (except Cimmeria) sharing a border with the Pictish Wilderness. Think of them like the gladiator units in R:TW. High fighting capacity,but low survivability and no armor.
Turan --
Turanian Light Spearmen - Lightly-armored defensive spearmen along the lines of Town Watch units,but also effective against cavalry with their spears and/or maybe the schiltrom formation.
Turanian Heavy Spearmen - Exact opposite of above. Clad in heavy mail or solid armor,armed with long pikes but limited in defense by the small size of their shields. Perhaps they could have "learned" the pike phalanx from neighboring Roman age countries?

Let me know what you think and I'll try to come up with some more.

[Spartan198]

Firstly,I apologize,but I haven't been on this site for a couple of days. With that aside,let's get down to business.

I found a color-shaded culture map of the continent (but can't remember where,at the moment) and it gave me a thought: why not include the unification of like-cultures as a secondary or optional campaign goal,such as unifying all Hellenic factions like Corinthia and Koth beneath a single crown? Barbarian Invasion did that with the two Roman factions. It could provide additional depth to the story,especially if you impliment the option of playing as a specific faction's leader.

[Taranaich]

Robert E. Howard wrote 700+ poems. I haven't read more than 5 of them, I must admit.

How about using ONLY work from R.E.H. in the quotes of the mod, but not just from his Conan works but all his work, including his poetry, wherever that applies?

Do you mean for the opening screens? Definitely. Some might not be 100% suitable (The boxing stories for instance), but his historical tales have some damn fine lines in them that would be great to include.

The quotes I use in the unit descriptions are more a way of explaining and rationalizing a unit's inclusion, as a way to show which units are definitely Howard canon and which are extrapolated. Therefore units like the Bossonian Archers will have a big piece of accompanying text so people know this was a big part of the Hyborian Age. For something like the Kothian Cataphract, however, there will either be an obscure reference to Kothian heavy cavalry or no quote at all, to show that it's not a unit necessarily described by Howard.

Firstly,I apologize,but I haven't been on this site for a couple of days. With that aside,let's get down to business.

Heh, don't worry, sometimes I'm not on the internet for days either. I probably will actually be off in the next few days getting my Shemite preview ready

I found a color-shaded culture map of the continent (but can't remember where,at the moment) and it gave me a thought: why not include the unification of like-cultures as a secondary or optional campaign goal,such as unifying all Hellenic factions like Corinthia and Koth beneath a single crown? Barbarian Invasion did that with the two Roman factions. It could provide additional depth to the story,especially if you impliment the option of playing as a specific faction's leader.

That's an idea. The unifying of similar cultures would be very interesting, since a lot of similar cultures are at loggerheads: the Meadow and Desert Shemites for instance. It would probably not be a victory condition per se, but a trigger event that adds benefits to the culture like a stronger economy and military bonuses, so it's desirable but not essential. Most victory conditions are pretty straightforward from the Hyborian Age, though the extent may vary: defeating the AEsir would be a reasonable victory condition for the Vanir, but conquering Stygia would be another.

ATM I haven't clearly decided on Koth's victory conditions, although it'll probably include conquering a lot of nations. Corinthia and Ophir will probably on Koth's "hit list" though, and I might include a trigger event for that. Koth, Corinthia and Ophir are part of the first generation Hyborian kingdoms, which is why they have a few more Greco-Roman overtones than straight Medieval ones.

[Spartan198]

Still working on unit ideas for you at this time,but I was curious about a couple things.
(1) How were you planning on presenting the Barachan Isles? An independent settlement or rebel city? Or had the thought of making them a seperate pirate faction crossed your mind? If so,then conquering them could add a couple of unique ship classes to your arsenal. What do you think?
(2) I was also wondering something about Corinthia. Aside from the Sacred Guard (cool name,BTW),were you going to stick with pike phalangist units,or were you going to mix in some traditional hoplite units,as well? I was curious because I'm working on an idea for a unit of Spartan-esque hoplites (working on a suitable name).

[Spartan198]

Have you considered benefits for factions holding specific landmarks,like Mount Crom,the Skull Gate of Hyperborea,and the Great Wall of Khitai? Treating them as somewhat of a Howardian equivalent to the 7 Wonders of the Ancient World would seem logical. Holding Mount Crom,for example,could give a public order boost,or lower the amount of turns needed to train elite Cimmerian units. What do you think?

[The Wicked]

Well hello to everybody ! Great mod !!
Here's a modding suggestion for Pike(especially Corinthian ) and Halberd units...


Where you see for pike and halberd units they have the attribute "phalanx".

Delete it and replace it with shield_wall

Then under their secondary weapons, remove them. So you'll see...
stat_sec 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 25, 1

Change it to...
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1

The only thing i cannot find out is how to make them to take a defencive stance by pointing their pikes to the enemy when an enemy unit aproaches like all other units do.... and one other thing (maybe this is to much to be possible) When in defencive stance or when attacking (MAYBE ) the first 2,3,4 0r 5 (too much ) ranks pointing their pikes to the enemy and the rest pointing them to the air..(is this possible?)

Please try it and see the results

Cheers...!

(Unless you have find a better way then in that case if you are kind enough please tell me Thanx !!)

[Taranaich]

Who are you basing Zamora on?
If you played Sabaeans in Europa Barbarorum, did you see their general's bodyguards?

Zamora is a bit tricky: the Zamorians seem to be a mix of slavic and early modern Mexico(!), so I'm basing them on the great Balkan nations of Hungary, Bulgaria and Wallachia, with a little bit of Spanish thrown in. Some Howard scholars think that Zingara (which is a term for a female gypsy) and Zamora (the name of a Leonese province in Spain) got their names mixed up, so Zingara is the "Spain" and Zamora the "Mexico" of the Hyborian Age. Or maybe Howard did it deliberately to mix the two countries up, it's a source of much speculation.

The Sabeans bodyguard are very nice, but they're reserved for the mini-faction of the Sabateans, an independent city-state south of Iranistan which is the seat of much sorcery and devilment.

How about making the Pictish bodyguard instead ultimate ambushers able to hide everywhere?

Would be ideal, except a general's unit can't hide. Game mechanics or something, though if there's a way around it it would be great.

I think it is nowhere mentioned that Picts make use of looted armor - I rather had the idea that they despise Aquilonians for that. I mean, in Howards stories where picts are mentioned they have obviously won and killed a lot of Aquilonian soldiers but still haven't taken their armor in use, only their weapons at most.

There are references to Picts trading with the Zingarans in a few stories and the Hyborian Age essay:

"West of here, many marches, lies the seashore. Ships from Zingara occasionally come and trade weapons and ornaments and wine to the coastal tribes for skins and copper ore and gold dust" - Beyond the Black River

Since the Zingarans have a habitual grudge with Aquilonia and particularly Poitain, it's kind of appropriate for some Zingaran barons to trade weapons to some savages that they know will make trouble for their rivals while getting some nice trinkets as a bonus. I'm sure the Picts wouldn't have such qualms stealing Aquilonian weapons and mail, but they wouldn't encase themselves in it by any means - at least not until the reforms.

Besides, having an armored unit armed with swords in an army consisting of mostly ~naked ambushers seems a bit out of place, doesn't it?

Well, by armoured I mean basically just a mail shirt and maybe vambraces, nothing that would sacrifice their mobility too much. Besides, the Picts do have swords as according to Beyond the Black River, but I'm treating them as the exception rather than the rule.

The picture I have of pictish warfare is that they never fight fair, always preferring ambushes and hit n' run tactics. If you plan to add optional military reforms in other factions, perhaps picts could have that choice too - to become more "civilized" through conquest of civilized lands at some point or stay true to their old style of warfare.

The Picts definitely prefer guerilla tactics over field engagements, and most of their units will be highly mobile with good attack but low defense and no armour. Skirmish with the enemy, charge them, retreat, skirmish, charge, retreat seems to be their modus operandi in The Black Stranger where a Pictish siege is described. So mobility is the key for the Picts, as well as ambushing and navigating forest terrain - which the Aquilonians have some difficulty in.

The Pictish Reforms of the later Hyborian Age could be started early by an enthusiastic player by research and expansion, but an important facet is that no matter how many castles they conquer or cities they acquire, the Pict always remains the eternal savage:

"Conquest and the acquiring of wealth altered not the Pict; out of the ruins of the crushed civilization no new culture arose phoenix-like. The dark hands which shattered the artistic glories of the conquered never tried to copy them. Though he sat among the glittering ruins of shattered palaces and clad his hard body in the silks of vanquished kings, the Pict remained the eternal barbarian, ferocious, elemental, interested only in the naked primal principles of life, unchanging, unerring in his instincts which were all for war and plunder, and in which arts and the cultured progress of humanity had no place." - The Hyborian Age

Have you considered benefits for factions holding specific landmarks,like Mount Crom,the Skull Gate of Hyperborea,and the Great Wall of Khitai? Treating them as somewhat of a Howardian equivalent to the 7 Wonders of the Ancient World would seem logical. Holding Mount Crom,for example,could give a public order boost,or lower the amount of turns needed to train elite Cimmerian units. What do you think?

There will be landmarks, buildings and wonders that function in this way: for example, the Scarlet Citadel give public a order bonus/happiness deduction due to terror, as well as discounts in training demons and magic-related technologies. Things like that.

Well hello to everybody ! Great mod !!
Here's a modding suggestion for Pike(especially Corinthian ) and Halberd units...

I tried the shield wall, but the lack of defensive animation is kind of crippling when used for units to defend against cavalry. I do use it for aggressive pike units though, it's pretty awesome having pikemen charge like that.

[Spartan198]

I know your Turan preview is coming up soon (and am still looking forward to it),but I was wondering if maybe you'd let me know what kingdoms you're focusing on and what each's historical model(s) will be? That way,we can both be on the same page as to what types of units you want for said faction,and I don't drop you unit ideas that flow against the current,so to speak,and end up useless.

How about including King Kull and the Atlantean Sword as a couple types of ancilliaries? King Kull could be considered a type of "legendary hero" trait that appears in,for example,King Conan's retinue list that gives a massive morale or attack boost,and the Atlantean Sword could have a somewhat similar effect that Excalibur had in Barbarian Invasion (but I can't quite remember what it is at the moment,because I've only attained it once a long time ago and haven't gotten it since,but it seems like it might have been some sort of heroic trait or battle skill).

Unit ideas:
Barachan Pirate Mercenaries - Unarmored light infantry that uses a missile weapon,maybe a harpoon,before charging. Though their defense rating would be low,they could either have high hitpoints or be dirt cheap to hire and maintain as a balance.
Argossean Gladiator Units - If my memory serves me correctly,a few of REH's stories mention Argos having Roman-esque gladiatorial games. Maybe a gladiator unit or two would compliment Argos' unit roster? This is one of my areas of expertise,so if you think it feels appropriate for the culture,let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.
Mercenary Warships - This is somewhat of a wildcard,because I'm not sure how the mechanics would work,if possible at all. I've always played Total War with the somewhat frusterating aspect of balancing out production of ground and naval forces,and always wished I could hire pirate ships or something as an interim navy.

Edit: Just out of curiousity,what's your stance on non-REH characters like Janissa the warrior-woman,Karela the Red Hawk,and Red Sonja (yeah,I know Sonja's copyrighted - just an example)?I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be included,but I'm only curious of your stance,mod-wise,toward them.

[Taranaich]

I know your Turan preview is coming up soon (and am still looking forward to it),but I was wondering if maybe you'd let me know what kingdoms you're focusing on and what each's historical model(s) will be? That way,we can both be on the same page as to what types of units you want for said faction,and I don't drop you unit ideas that flow against the current,so to speak,and end up useless.

Certainly, here's a rough model of the factions for the first release:

Aquilonia = Medieval France / Imperial Rome
Nemedia = Holy Roman Empire / Imperial Rome
Koth = The Byzantines
Argos = Argos / Medieval Italy
Zingara = Medieval Spain / Classical Iberians
Corinthia = Corinth / Carinthia
Ophir = Medieval Italy / Ptolemaic Egypt
Brythunia = Medieval Poland / Dark Age Britain and Classical Galatia
Hyperborea = Medieval Russia / Medieval Finland
The Border Kingdom = Medieval Anglo-Scottish Border country
The Cimmerians = Dark Age Gaels
The Æsir = Dark Age Norse
The Vanir = Dark Age Norse
The Picts = Cavemen / East-coast Native Americans
Pelishtia = Ancient Mesopotamia
The Zuagir = Pre-Islamic Arabia / Moors
Zamora = The Roma people, particularly the Gitanos of Iberia and the Kalderash of the Balkans / Pre-Columbian South American civilizations
Stygia = Ancient Egypt
Turan = Ottoman Turks / Timurid Empire

When two inspirations are listed, the first is the dominant one, the second being either complementary or superficial.

I'm not entirely sure of Zamora yet, the scholars I'm chatting to haven't gotten back to me on it, but they're definitely Roma. I'm tentatively giving them a gleaning of the Moche culture due to their worship of a Spider God, but it's not permanent.

Also, don't worry about suggesting units that wouldn't fit with my own outlook: just because they wouldn't fit for one faction doesn't mean they wouldn't be great for another. The only soldiers that wouldn't really fit in the Hyborian Age are those with guns, and even they might make it in if replaced with a crossbow.

How about including King Kull and the Atlantean Sword as a couple types of ancilliaries? King Kull could be considered a type of "legendary hero" trait that appears in,for example,King Conan's retinue list that gives a massive morale or attack boost,and the Atlantean Sword could have a somewhat similar effect that Excalibur had in Barbarian Invasion (but I can't quite remember what it is at the moment,because I've only attained it once a long time ago and haven't gotten it since,but it seems like it might have been some sort of heroic trait or battle skill).

Aspects of Kull and Kull's Thurian Age will definitely be in the mod, since there are plenty of such things in the Conan stories (the Aquilonian city of Shamar is believed to have been built before Atlantis sank, for example), so a few trinkets of the Thurian Age might make their way into the game. "Legendary Ancestor" is a really neat idea actually, and ties in well with the ideas of bloodlines: although I'm not sure Conan is a direct descendent of Kull, there's nothing stopping him boasting of descent once he learns about him.

Barachan Pirate Mercenaries - Unarmored light infantry that uses a missile weapon,maybe a harpoon,before charging. Though their defense rating would be low,they could either have high hitpoints or be dirt cheap to hire and maintain as a balance.

The Barachans are surprisingly well equipped - there are pikemen with cuirasses and burgonets, longbowmen with leather jerkins and helms, and the usual unarmoured sword-swinging pirates one would expect. Your description fits the latter nicely (I even have them hurling harpoons!), and the two others would be specialist troops you only get by conquering Tortage (or if you're Argos, who use them as privateers)

Argossean Gladiator Units - If my memory serves me correctly,a few of REH's stories mention Argos having Roman-esque gladiatorial games. Maybe a gladiator unit or two would compliment Argos' unit roster? This is one of my areas of expertise,so if you think it feels appropriate for the culture,let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.

Howard doesn't explicitly mention any gladiators in Argos, but they do fit quite well with the polyglot swarthiness and brutality I had in mind for Argos' more rugged and ungentlemanly units. Since Argos has somewhat relaxed laws regarding trade with pirates, I can certainly imagine pit-fights or deathmatches being quite popular in the darker corners of Messantia.

Mercenary Warships - This is somewhat of a wildcard,because I'm not sure how the mechanics would work,if possible at all. I've always played Total War with the somewhat frusterating aspect of balancing out production of ground and naval forces,and always wished I could hire pirate ships or something as an interim navy.

I think Mercenary warships are a must for landlocked nations, since constructing a fleet to confront even a smaller maritime power would take time: hiring out pirate or Free Company fleets would give them a leg-up.

Edit: Just out of curiousity,what's your stance on non-REH characters like Janissa the warrior-woman,Karela the Red Hawk,and Red Sonja (yeah,I know Sonja's copyrighted - just an example)?I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be included,but I'm only curious of your stance,mod-wise,toward them.

I've decided to take a hard-line stance on non-REH characters and chose not to include them. This just keeps things simple, so that the only characters, soldiers, places and events are either REH's own, or ones I made up. This keeps things simple copyright wise and also maintains a sense of integrity when I disagree with a certain pastiche's views on a nation or character. So no Red Sonja, Janissa, Karela or other characters, sorry to say. There are some characters I really liked though - Fafnir Demonhand is one of my favourite Conan characters not written by Howard - but it would be unfair to "pick and choose", so there it is.

[Spartan198]

Ah,thanks. This helps quite a bit.

PS - So the works of REH are public domain Scotland? I'm only curious because there's a big controversy about it here in the States. From the last I heard,the status was still up in the air. It really stinks (sorry,I don't mean to jump off subject).

PPS - You've got states on your list that correspond to the Reinassance (sp?) period,so REH's Red Sonya (with a "Y",not a "J") of Rogantino wouldn't necessarily be off-limits. Really,all you'd need to do is change her pistols over for hand-held crossbows.

Edit - Again,out of curiousity,what does that phrase at the bottom of your posts,beneath "The Hyborian Age: Total War",translate to,if you don't mind me asking?

[Spartan198]

I was checking out your faction leader thread and it gave me an idea for family member bodyguard units: I haven't played M2TW yet,so I don't know that game's take on them,but Rome and BI bodyguard units were puny and pretty much useless aside from throwing away your general. How about, instead of small bands of 12 or so horsemen, you make the starting bodyguard count equal to that of the standard cavalry squadron count (27 at the lowest settings on the above games)? Maybe my tactics are just too infantry-based, but I always seem to waste family members because of this. (I find that a captain in charge of 27 horses seems to be far more useful than a general or king in charge of 12)

[Taranaich]

Oddly enough, just about every major battle in the Conan tales has the generals (usually they're the faction leader themselves) getting stuck right in to the fighting: Strabonus and Amalrus in Scarlet Citadel, Amalric and Tarascus in Hour of the Dragon, and naturally Conan himself are not afraid to get their armour splashed in blood. As such, expect generals to be much more useful as combatants in The Hyborian Age - Total War. They won't be ridiculously powerful (unless they're Conan, who will be very hard to kill or capture on the battlefield as per usual), but they'll certainly be as good combatants as their own elites.

The bodyguard units will be different depending on the faction, but here's a rough idea:

Hyborian general's bodyguards will be composed of elite heavy cavalry, usually the cream of the nation's chivalry: they'll likely have a small number of cavalry soldier, but not so small that they'd be useless in combat. There will be regional variations (Black Dragons for Aquilonia, Scarlet Dragons for Nemedia, Companions for Corinthia etc) but they'll more or less fulfill similar roles.

Eastern bodyguards are heavy horse archers armed with heavy bows and clad in strong armour, with a small number of soldiers like the Hyborians. Again, regional variations apply for the individual factions (Immortals for Iranistan, Solaks for Turan etc).

Barbarian bodyguards are heavy infantry, and slightly different based on the faction: Cimmerians have Arras Champions (Goidilic/Iberian-style scale armour, armed with claymores), Æsir and Vanir have Ásjarls and Vanjarls (scale armoured two-handed warhammers/swordsmen), and the Picts have Chosen Braves (warriors armed in pilfered or traded chain armour and Zingaran swords). They'll generally be as hearty and enthusiastic fighters as other infantry units, and indeed will probably be more effective at command when stuck in the fray.

Stygian generals are probably going to be chariot archers at some point assuming the chariot animations/models can be cracked, but until then they're heavy horse archers like the Easterners.

I should say I have *no clue* what Zamora's going to be like, but it'll certainly be interesting.

[Volkmar]

I'm getting anxious to play this game. You're truly a one of a kind modder first for wanting to do this all by yourself, and second for doing a good job on it.