I would balk at calling jihads "cheesy" since your simply using a provided game mechanic. Its just not my style. For those of us who would prefer to sit and build, do you think a viable strategy would be to sit back and let someone else take the middle east? Let the giants get tired battering each other and swoop in to pick up the pieces? When I get around to playing Egypt, I think that is what I would try.
I would balk at calling jihads "cheesy" since your simply using a provided game mechanic. Its just not my style. For those of us who would prefer to sit and build, do you think a viable strategy would be to sit back and let someone else take the middle east? Let the giants get tired battering each other and swoop in to pick up the pieces? When I get around to playing Egypt, I think that is what I would try.
I would avoid this strategy, as it leaves you quite vulnerable. As mentioned previously, any faction that potentially shares a border with the Mongol hordes cannot afford to be lax. Russia, Turkey, and Egypt will all be wiped out if the do not expand either into each other's territory or to the west, as their starting position is too close to the eastern edge of the map and their starting positions are not large enough to provide enough troops to repel the hordes.
I am willing to listen to anyone who has made such a strategy work and defeated the Mongol and Timurid hordes.
My reasoning for using the expansionist strategy:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Think of it this way: has the AI ever defeated the hordes? Unless for some freak reason one AI faction takes half the map and by luck happens to have several large stacks just hanging around the eastern steppes, they are going to be toast when the first few waves of Mongols arrive and begin thier slaughter and conquest. Perhaps the western states can afford to sit and wait, using Russia, Asia Minor, and the Middle East as a buffer zone, and perhaps utilizing crusades to repel the invaders, but the factions sitting on the border cannot; especially if they refuse to expand.
If anyone has proof of a "wait and see" build strategy working for Egypt or Turkey, please post it on this board. I'm open to the possibility that I am wrong on this... it just seems like bad strategy to me.
One more thing; if we were facing human opponents, a slow expansion or "perfectionist" strategy would prove fatal. You would have to use large standing armies purely for defense, and an expansionist would gain enough AI territories to wipe you out.
Simply put, staying small and vulnerable never seems like a good idea, unless the goal of the game is to roleplay and have fun. If the object is victory, and you border the Mongols, you need to be more expansionist.
That's the theory I am operating on, anyway.
I invite all those who subscribe to perfectionist theory (for Turkey, Russia, or Egypt) to post proof of their accomplishments on this thread. The turn number must be around turn 80 or later, and the Mongols and the Timurids must both have been vanquished from the map. According to perfectionist theory, you cannot have expanded too far into anyone else's territory, merely taken rebel settlements.
It is interesting to note; the expansionist strategy I am using is providing me enough pillaging florins to build up not only my original cities, but also the new conquests. Essentially, I am a perfectionist with more cities at this point. I do believe it is a superior strategy.
This forum is open for debate, so make your voice heard! I've never tried bribing the Mongols and suing for peace with them, because you are putting the safety of your own nation in jeopardy. You are banking your future on the bet that the AI is stupid. If they had any sense they would crush you. It is a war game, after all. If such a strategy succeeded it would be merely because the AI for the hordes is sub-par. If a human were in control of the hordes, you would be surely defeated.
And of course, any fellow expansionists feel free to back me up on this.
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 07-03-2007 at 08:56.
I would avoid this strategy, as it leaves you quite vulnerable. As mentioned previously, any faction that potentially shares a border with the Mongol hordes cannot afford to be lax. Russia, Turkey, and Egypt will all be wiped out if the do not expand either into each other's territory or to the west, as their starting position is too close to the eastern edge of the map and their starting positions are not large enough to provide enough troops to repel the hordes.
I am willing to listen to anyone who has made such a strategy work and defeated the Mongol and Timurid hordes.
My reasoning for using the expansionist strategy:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Think of it this way: has the AI ever defeated the hordes? Unless for some freak reason one AI faction takes half the map and by luck happens to have several large stacks just hanging around the eastern steppes, they are going to be toast when the first few waves of Mongols arrive and begin thier slaughter and conquest. Perhaps the western states can afford to sit and wait, using Russia, Asia Minor, and the Middle East as a buffer zone, and perhaps utilizing crusades to repel the invaders, but the factions sitting on the border cannot; especially if they refuse to expand.
If anyone has proof of a "wait and see" build strategy working for Egypt or Turkey, please post it on this board. I'm open to the possibility that I am wrong on this... it just seems like bad strategy to me.
One more thing; if we were facing human opponents, a slow expansion or "perfectionist" strategy would prove fatal. You would have to use large standing armies purely for defense, and an expansionist would gain enough AI territories to wipe you out.
Simply put, staying small and vulnerable never seems like a good idea, unless the goal of the game is to roleplay and have fun. If the object is victory, and you border the Mongols, you need to be more expansionist.
That's the theory I am operating on, anyway.
I invite all those who subscribe to perfectionist theory (for Turkey, Russia, or Egypt) to post proof of their accomplishments on this thread. The turn number must be around turn 80 or later, and the Mongols and the Timurids must both have been vanquished from the map. According to perfectionist theory, you cannot have expanded too far into anyone else's territory, merely taken rebel settlements.
It is interesting to note; the expansionist strategy I am using is providing me enough pillaging florins to build up not only my original cities, but also the new conquests. Essentially, I am a perfectionist with more cities at this point. I do believe it is a superior strategy.
This forum is open for debate, so make your voice heard! I've never tried bribing the Mongols and suing for peace with them, because you are putting the safety of your own nation in jeopardy. You are banking your future on the bet that the AI is stupid. If they had any sense they would crush you. It is a war game, after all. If such a strategy succeeded it would be merely because the AI for the hordes is sub-par. If a human were in control of the hordes, you would be surely defeated.
And of course, any fellow expansionists feel free to back me up on this.
Anytime I have played as England, I crusade to the holy lands early on and I am always able to hold off both hordes. Of course I play on E/E and I have the United Kingdom providing me enough funds to maintain two good stacks that simply hold whatever river crossings are near the invaders. And of course alot of strategies would fail against human players. Humans can and do exploit the mechanics of the game to the fullest while the AI is bound by the parameters written into it.
Anytime I have played as England, I crusade to the holy lands early on and I am always able to hold off both hordes. Of course I play on E/E and I have the United Kingdom providing me enough funds to maintain two good stacks that simply hold whatever river crossings are near the invaders. And of course alot of strategies would fail against human players. Humans can and do exploit the mechanics of the game to the fullest while the AI is bound by the parameters written into it.
This is the best strategy I've seen so far, besides uber-expansionism.
However, like you said, it wouldn't work against humans. Humans wouldnt charge directly across a river, they would utilize the Mongol archers to slay you from afar, thus negating the effectiveness of a bridge blockade.
The strategy also doesn't work too well if you are Egypt or Turkey, and havent expanded very far. You wouldnt be able to field enough units to block all the bridges.
Next segment of the guide coming soon!
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 07-03-2007 at 18:28.
Posted below are turns 6-10
===================================
Overview
===================================
Turn 6-
I adopted a general this turn, which spawned in my capital. I immediately sent him and a garrison south to take Dongola.
I also sent my other general south; he picked up a bunch of cavalry and infantry and rejoined the jihad.
My king and prince lay siege to Adana and I send my diplomat north by sea using my mercenary ship.
I intend to make alliances with the Turks, securing my northern border for the moment. Hopefully, they will make an excellent buffer between the Byzantines and myself. I intend to deal a crippling blow to the Byzantines using my Sultan and prince, and then mop up what’s left of them with my other jihadists. I may or may not be able to hold their provinces, but I can demolish them and prevent them from striking me, pillage their lands, destroy their infrastructure and sell it off, and continue on my merry way.
Turn 7-
My Sultan died this turn, but I adopted another general. My completion of a mission, conquering Adana, nets me 4 horse archers as well, all spawning at my capital.
I continue recruiting to the maximum in all my regions, as well as joining all troops that I can to jihads.
My first adopted general heads south and reaches Dongola. I lose some troops to desertion this turn in my Adana stack. I expect to lose more troops to desertion in my Dongola stack, but this is of no concern. I do not recruit the mercenary in this region, as I will need to recruit it next turn after I lose troops to desertion. Remember to play the game according to the rules; there is no sense recruiting a unit that will just desert this turn.
Turn 8-
Surprisingly, I lose no troops to desertion in Dongola. I take the province and head north, leaving watchtowers in my wake. I move my general from Gaza to the Byzantine island castle, laying siege and declaring war. I move my diplomat and make peace with the Turks, but cannot secure an alliance without giving up provinces, so I choose to remain at peace instead. The Moors join the Jihad against Novgorod. My new Sultan makes his way towards Constantinople. I build a castle in Aleppo, and build infantry producing buildings in many of my provinces, and my first ballista unit.
My new adopted general, Al-Sadat joins the jihad, but doesn’t move yet. I intend to have more units spawn and join the jihad.
Turn 9-
My spy infiltrates Nicaea, and opens the gates for my Sultan. I take Nicaea with auto-resolve, as my forces are vastly superior. I hire a mercenary boat and lay siege to Constantinople this same turn. My general in Cairo heads to Gaza and prepares to join the jihad. My general from Dongola continues north and more units join his jihad from Cairo. I build masjids in Nicaea and my freshly conquered Byzantine castle of Nicosia. I finally run out of florins!
I use my diplomat to make nice with the Turks again, hoping to improve relations. I improve them to ‘amiable’.
Turn 10-
I spawn another general. (Quick expansion does that) There are now two generals and a bunch of militia units near Cairo, so I merge them all together and join the jihad. This is the last turn I can join the jihad, so I join up all units that I can. The general from Gaza musters all the troops in that region and joins the jihad. Now I move him by mercenary boat to Nicosia. I move my general from Rhodes to Constantinople region to assist my Sultan in taking the city down. My Sultan continues the siege.
On second thought, let’s show off our battle abilities. We can take Constantinople this turn if our forces are strong enough.
The battle was close, and I chose to claim victory by the 3 minute rule rather than waste my men’s lives by slaying all the infidels. They surrendered after their Prince died by my Sultan’s hand. I sacked the city (I have no intention of holding it just yet, due to the size of the city and the lack of Muslim control of the region) and I allow Constantinople to gain independence and become a rebel city.
I move my Sultan north towards Hungary. My reputation by this point is Untrustworthy, so I plan on blitzing them and moving north, rather than make peace. The Catholics are not to be trusted anyway, because they call crusades upon me. The more Catholic scum that die, the fewer enemies I will have at my gate.
====================================
Visuals: Click to view
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
al-Mustamsik joins the Jihad, but heads south to quickly take Dongola. My diplomat heads north to make peace with the Turks, and my general in Gaza prepares to head north.
On second thought, perhaps Mubarak should conquer Nicosia... he recruits some mercenaries and prepares to head out.
My Sultan and his spy head west. I do not intend to conquer the Turks just yet, and I could not do so on Jihad anyway.
My spy does some recon. Try not to blunder forward if you do not know what lies ahead. You wouldn't want your faction leader and heir to die in an ambush, would you?
My sultan takes Adana. He is about to kick the bucket, but he got me off to a nice start.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I believe this is my faction heir's son, the next heir of my government, and a reward of 4 horse archers for capturing Adana.
My general reaches Dongola and lays seige. Here is his predicted movement path for the next couple turns.
Mubarak musters more troops to his cause, and prepares for his voyage.
My Sultan's forces are depleted, but his boldness pays off. As he marches forward, he encounters a giant army of mercenaries ready to follow him... for the right price!
After movement and recruitment.
Mubarak reaches Nicosia, and declares war on the infidel. My diplomat makes nice with the Turks, and my spy moves northwest
Mubarak will rendezvous with my sultan by sea after taking Nicosia. My Sultan prepares a sneak attack on Nicaea.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
My general heads out after taking Dongola.
Nicosia falls easily. Next stop: Rhodes.
Mustamsik gains some fresh recruits from Cairo. Note the strategy of constantly replenishing your troops as you conquer. This is easy to do when near your territory, with careful planning.
My spy infiltrates and opens the gate! Nicosia will fall.
An easy auto-resolve victory. Next: Constantinople.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I lay seige to Constantinople the same turn by recruiting a mercenary boat. Who needs ports?
My other general arrives from Rhodes
al-Sadat arrives from Gaza
Yet more generals join my cause via adoption.
The moment of truth: I decide to go it alone at Constantinople without waiting for reinforcements. This battle is going to be rough, but it is more than winnable. I don't auto-resolve this one... this time, a true general is needed on the battlefield.
Always fight the battles that require your personal attention.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I set up my standard seige tactic: A feint to the walls, followed by a brutal charge to the city center once the gates are down.
The enemy have a serious wall garrison, so I trick them into thinking I wish to fight them on the walls. They dare not give ground or I will take them without a fight.
The gate is open! FULL ATTACK!
The cowards are running already. Victory will be mine.
The fool has left his prince all alone to die by my hand.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
You can see there is now no hope of escape, your excellency...
With his general dead, all hope is lost.
I run the clock and win this day. No sense in wasting good arab lives on these greeks.
I don't intend to cower inside these walls. I have things to destroy and people to butcher.
I spot the enemy as I advance north. I intend to spend my pillaging florins on new recruits and castles. My Sultan personally recruits some Sofia-region mercenaries.
This ends turn 10. More will be posted, possibly tomorrow.
Status of the realm: we have several full stacks of Muslim fighters and mercenaries. The Turks are our friends, and do not appear to be threatening us at this time. The Byzantines have been dealt a very damaging blow, and we have obliterated half of their Empire. The Sultan is most pleased with this progress.
Several regions have upgraded and built castles, all my main provinces are able to produce good troops every turn. We are ready for Total War.
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 07-04-2007 at 04:43.
Any comments on the progress so far? Questions, compliments, criticisms?
I will be checking back periodically, so rest assured I will respond.
If you readers would like to follow along with this game and investigate for yourself the state of my realm, I could upload the saved turns.
I make it a habit of saving every turn and numbering the turn. If you would like, I can post the individual turns as I did with England: Turn by Turn and you can follow along, or pick up where I left off at ANY point in the game.
If you are interested, here is the link to the sendspace page:
You can unzip the files and play any of the turns from 1-10. http://www.sendspace.com/file/09yhyo
You will have to open your M2TW folder and open the saves folder, then drag and drop. They will become playable at this point.
Note: as always, these files may be unplayable on a modded or upgraded version of the game.
All my save files are for the original release version.
If you have an upgraded version, you can install from your CD another fresh original version and put it under file SEGA 2, and keep your current version playable as well.
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 07-04-2007 at 00:30.
Well, I think I have commented enough for now on strategy so I will focus on the guides. I like them alot. I think you are very clear with what you strategy and battle tactics are. I like how you lay out what your going to do. And I look forward to more of these. Even though I do not plan on using your overall strategy, your starting game moves will help me conquer the "homelands" of my faction quicker and easier and allow my "perfectionist" strategy to go smoother. So, maybe my strategy is moving more towards a "hybrid" but is still weighted more the one way than the other.
PS Am I the only one with the "imperial march" playing in the background as I view these? ^_^
I would balk at calling jihads "cheesy" since your simply using a provided game mechanic. Its just not my style. For those of us who would prefer to sit and build, do you think a viable strategy would be to sit back and let someone else take the middle east? Let the giants get tired battering each other and swoop in to pick up the pieces? When I get around to playing Egypt, I think that is what I would try.
That's not going to work simply because half the units or so of the Mongols and Timurids have 0 upkeep. Even though the AI is stupid and still builds the other units, it builds enough of the 0 upkeep units that its armies just get larger and larger. Once either the Mongols and Timurids settle, they will start cranking out more and more of these 0 upkeep units and get really large armies.
When I played the Moors, I decided to go to the Americas. I ignored the Mongols and Timurids because I'm so far away from them. The Mongols conquered most of Russia, Nicaea and everything east of it. The Timurids have Egypt's lands up to Acre. At the end of the game, the Mongols have around 18 stacks near Nicaea.
Re: Egypt: Visual strategy guide
Originally Posted by Privateerkev
what's the difficulty setting here, btw?
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