Warning from the Pope

[rockoutloud1213]

I am playing France in the early period. I've played VI before but this is my first time playing the normal game. I have forced England off the European mainland and was surprised the Pope hadn't warned me yet. However, when I followed them back and took Wessex, I got a warning to "recall my troops" in two years. Does this mean I just need to stop fighting England (fine with me, I need to focus on the Germans) or that I need to leave Wessex? Also, what happens if I try to ceasefire with England as the Pope requested, but William doesn't want to?

Thanks.

[Martok]

First off, welcome to the Org, rockoutloud1213! Good to see you here

I am playing France in the early period. I've played VI before but this is my first time playing the normal game. I have forced England off the European mainland and was surprised the Pope hadn't warned me yet. However, when I followed them back and took Wessex, I got a warning to "recall my troops" in two years.

If you have twice as many provinces as the Catholic faction you're at war with, the Pope will warn you to back off -- this applies even to large factions that are attacked by small ones. That's why the HRE get excommed so often, as even launching counterattacks to regain lost territory still counts as "offensive" action in the Pope's mind.

Does this mean I just need to stop fighting England (fine with me, I need to focus on the Germans) or that I need to leave Wessex?

You'll also need to withdraw your troops from Wessex. Alternatively, you could assault London instead -- if you take the castle immediately, you can often avoid the excommunication (but not always!).

Also, what happens if I try to ceasefire with England as the Pope requested, but William doesn't want to?

Thanks.

Then you'll remain in a state of war with the English until either they offer you a ceasefire, or you're able to finish them off at a later time. I know it sucks, but them's the breaks. On the other hand, the Pope can only warn you against one faction at a time, so you're now free to attack other Catholic factions with impunity (at least for the next 10 years, until the current Papal interdiction expires).

[rockoutloud1213]

How can I avoid excomm by taking London? isn't that offensive? and london is in which province?

[Martok]

How can I avoid excomm by taking London? isn't that offensive? and london is in which province?

London is the castle in Wessex. (Sorry, I should've clarified that! )

If you take the actual castle in a province within the Pope's 2-year limit, then the province is no longer considered to be "disputed". In the end, this is what the Pope really wants -- he dislikes it when Catholic factions both have men in the same territory. So by conquering and occupying London castle, you'll have gained complete control over Wessex, which *should* placate the Pope.

I will warn you, however, that this tactic doesn't always work in my experience -- it's entirely possible you could be excommunicated anyway. The odds are still in your favor that you won't, but there is a definite risk.

[rockoutloud1213]

I think I already hold London... hm, well I'll save a lot and see where this goes... I really don't want to be excommed, the HRE is on the verge of killing me already...

[Martok]

Ah. I misread your OP then -- I was under the impression you controlled only the province but not the castle itself yet. If you do hold the castle (London) as well, then you don't have to worry about excommunication. You *will* still have to deal with possible English counterattacks (at least until/unless they sign a ceasefire with you), but that's it.

So if you do control all of Wessex, then you've got nothing to worry about as far as His Holiness is concerned. Also, as I stated in my previous post, you've got 10 years from the time of the Pope's initial warning to war with as many Catholic factions as you wish (aside from the English). Given that, this may be a good time to grab some extra lands elsewhere.

[rockoutloud1213]

Well, England came back, instead of fighting I figured I'd just go back to Flanders, and now the HRE decided to stop by for some tea and left with toulouse. So, I'm pretty occupied as is.

[therussian91]

Well, I now that you're off the island, I suggest a ship or two in the English Channel and North Sea, just to fend off the threat of naval invasion (which probably won't happen anyway), and just turn your attention to Germany

Try getting a ceasefire with England though

[rockoutloud1213]

having a fleet there would do nothing; troops can move directly from flanders to wessex across the channel without ships or a port. I will try to get a ceasefire though.

Pesky HRE... what do you do against them?

[therussian91]

having a fleet there would do nothing; troops can move directly from flanders to wessex across the channel without ships or a port. I will try to get a ceasefire though.

Pesky HRE... what do you do against them?

Haha, I've just been playing XL too long then, since it does have any land bridges in it.

[Seabourch]

Ignore the Pope ad get excommunicated!In MTW, getting excommunicated is no different than not being excommunicated. Pound the English scum into dust!

[therussian91]

Ignore the Pope ad get excommunicated!In MTW, getting excommunicated is no different than not being excommunicated. Pound the English scum into dust!

You forget about the huge drop in loyalty across your lands, and the higher chance of rebellion.



Add to the fact that you're now open for anyone to attack you

[Noir]

Originally posted by therussian91

You forget about the huge drop in loyalty across your lands, and the higher chance of rebellion.

Provinces in vanilla are generally designated with rebelliousness "0". Now if you turn this 0 to a 2 you'll find out that disobeying the Pope is a rather... bad decision - rebellions from Catholic subjects in your own lands due to the excommunication of your king/emperor are ferocious and frequent. In vanilla however this is much less felt.

Many Thanks

Noir

[rockoutloud1213]

Now, playing as Aragon, the Spanish attack me and I beat em back and take both their last provinces. Pope warns me, so I take the forts. This destroys Spain. I beat them before the two year limit, but will the Pope hate me for totally eliminating Spain?

Thanks.

[General Dazza]

No. As long as you're not still besieging them after 2 years you're OK.

And as for excomm not being an issue - Drogba66, try that theory playing as HRE!

[cosminus]

Ignore the Pope ad get excommunicated!In MTW, getting excommunicated is no different than not being excommunicated. Pound the English scum into dust!

Also being excomm you are unable to crusade and Pope may request to catholics to crusade against you (for free). It is better to avoid excomm.

[cosminus]

Now, playing as Aragon, the Spanish attack me and I beat em back and take both their last provinces. Pope warns me, so I take the forts. This destroys Spain. I beat them before the two year limit, but will the Pope hate me for totally eliminating Spain?

Thanks.

If you destroyed Spain an you still not get excomm you are still in the Pope grace. Moreover, you can hit other catholic faction within 10 years of spanish warning without any concern from Pope. You are in an ideal situation now, no threat of revenge from Spain, free to attack catholics.

[rockoutloud1213]

Well, England is tempting... but I should probably focus on the Almohads. How strong are they, by the way?

[Martok]

Well, England is tempting... but I should probably focus on the Almohads. How strong are they, by the way?

Who, the Almohads or the English? If you're referring to the Almos, then I will warn you that they can be very powerful in the Early period -- this is especially true if you're playing vanilla MTW minus the VI expansion pack. With rich starting lands and the powerful Almohad Urban Militia on their unit roster, they can easily overrun western Europe in just a couple decades.

If you're playing the game with Viking Invasion installed, they won't be as bad, as the expansion pack greatly reduced their aggressiveness. They're still tough to tackle, though.