Interesting Hoplite Tactics

[CountMRVHS]

Been reading some stuff about the Greco-Persian wars (Tom Holland's Persian Fire is particularly recommended), and with that and 300 in mind I've started a Greek campaign, H/H, latest patch.

I'm pleased that the Greeks actually seem to get their cool units fairly quickly; Hoplites and Armored Hoplites are the backbone of my armies, and I'm getting very close to making Spartans already (257).

It's been a long time since I've played the Greeks and I was curious about everyone's tactics with the Hoplite units. "Make a big line and march forward in phalanx formation" is pretty obvious, as is the corrollary "flank with whatever you can find for cav", so I'm looking for things a bit more dynamic than that, something that maybe plays to the great stamina of the Armoreds and Spartans. Or anything really -- any hoplite tactics that have worked well for you, or even those that have failed utterly. Looking forward to input and suggestions,

CountMRVHS

[TruePraetorian]

Now i've personally only tried this a few times but it seems to work against other hoplite-backboned armies. Try lining you hoplites up in a checker-board formation. When the enemies hoplites come marching forward, they will often get stuck fighting the men in front. That's when you move your other men up through the gaps to flank.

I use the line up tactic, it's good and solid providing you have some experience using hoplites . It may be the most basic but it works.

If you really want to try something, try what Alexander did. He would line up his line with all his cavalry on the right side, and would thin out his left side. The left side would then see a much easier side to break (in actuality it was the same strength just a rank or two less). He would then take all of his cavalry and destroy his opponenets cavalry (lucky Macedonian companion cavalry ) Then he would directly attack the enemy General to disrupt morale, then would collide with the enemies atttacking his left flank (because the right flank usually does pretty good ) If you've ever seen Alexander the movie, he even asks his captain to "hold the left"

Hope i've helped

[CountMRVHS]

Ahh, the Gaugamela (?) tactic, right? Someday I'll see if I can pull that off, but I think it would have to be with the Macedonians and their better cav.

I've been very impressed with the Spartans though; I fought a single unit of them against a couple Macedon armies (they got caught in the open as I was transferring them to another city). So I set them up on a hill, phalanx off, and waited for the Levy pikemen to approach, then rushed them down, turned on phalanx, and watched them just chew through the pikes. In a matter of seconds the Levies were down to half-strength and started routing.

Now I can't remember if I switched guard mode off before doing this, but it certainly seemed like the Spartans were pushing forward a lot more aggressively than usual. Any thoughts on guard mode with hoplite units? On or off?

CountMRVHS

[Poulp']

if you want them to advance further and if you're ready to see their formation going awray, turn it on.
in every other case, have it off.

err
yes, that's the other way around

I did it on purpose to see if you were listening, congrats, you passed the test

[CountMRVHS]

I assume you mean that the other way round -- switch guard off to have them advance, but keep it on to have them stay put.

Does guard mode actually decrease kill rates when it's on? I've had decent luck with my hoplites keeping phalanx formation even when it's off, so if they get faster kills that would be a plus. Of course the downside is that they break up the line, but sometimes that's acceptable.

[PapaNasty]

having guard mode on simply means they won't budge if the enemy runs away and they try harder to keep formation. If its off, they are free to "push forward" in attack as you have pointed out. I like having guard mode on when i don't want my units to move (when defending or against multiple waves of attack, or if I want them to wear themselves out against me before I finish them off); and I like having it set to off if i'm attacking over unbroken ground and I want them to be more aggressive.

Keeping in mind the AI tendancy to attack any skirmisher units with cav/chariots or light infantry, when I play as a Phalanx capable nation I usually always set up as a defensive army as follows

Line up Phalanx units in a single, straight line, ready to go (sometimes in two lines, depending on the circumstances and number/quality of units I have). Place skirmishers directly in front of them AMONG the pikes, with the 'avoid melee' button thing turned OFF. This normally causes the AI to run its cav/chariots directly into the phalanx when trying to get to the skirmishers. the skirmishers normally get massacred too but this gets rid of the enemy mobile unts

After that, I have my own cavalry circle to the rear and lighter melee infantry (normally mercs) come around the flanks to engage the enemy, by now normally engaged with my Phalanx. If I have them, archers safely positioned behind the phalanxs provide constant missile fire.

While the melee infantry hits the flanks of the engaged enemy, my cavalry is free to roam behind enemy lines...hit their general, take out skirmishers and archers etc. This also puts cav in a good position to catch routers.

OR

If outnumbered and defending, I set up phalanx units in a triangle, flat edge towards the enemy. Melee infantry and archers are on the inside, skirmishers/slingers still positioned as before to draw enemy mobile units. my own cavalry is set up back behind the "tip" of the triangle so that they have the advantage of a flank attack on any units that try to hit the sides of my triangle. If they are not needed for this, they are protected from missile fire and held in reserve to flank the enemy once they engage the front.

Usually, if no units try and flank, the sides of my triangle swing around to form a triangle with spears facing inwards, facing the rear of the engaged enemy. This nasty move is normally enough to decimate any routers, or any enemy who break off. My cavalry and light infantry now are used to protect the rear of these troops from any enemy missile units or un-engaged infantry/cavalry.