Shogun II Total War

[masonkiller]

Personally, I think Shogun is the best of the Total War series. I think they should do to Shogun what they did to Medieval. Make the game with some new features and better graphics.... I would buy it...


Just my opinion...

[Seijitai]

On my "top three best games" I ever played... With Monkey Island and Deus Ex... Ahhh, those were the days

By the way, as a shameless advertising, just look at my sig...

[barocca]

Shogun2 would get my hard earned dollars,
failing that Ran no Jidai will get my bandwwidth...
B.

[Togakure]

I both yearn for and fear "Shogun 2." I would definitely buy it. I would even pay more for it than I would normally pay for a game. If it was good, I would certainly spend way too much time playing it. I fear this, and of course, I fear that it would not stand up to its original. It would break my gaming heart to see the shibumi of Shogun replaced by a garish, commercialized new release. Because of this fear, I find myself thinking it would be better to let things be. I still play Shogun SP. I will play it for as long as it will run on the platform of the day. I consider it a personal treasure, my favorite computer game ever.

[Martok]

I both yearn for and fear "Shogun 2." I would definitely buy it. I would even pay more for it than I would normally pay for a game. If it was good, I would certainly spend way too much time playing it. I fear this, and of course, I fear that it would not stand up to its original. It would break my gaming heart to see the shibumi of Shogun replaced by a garish, commercialized new release. Because of this fear, I find myself thinking it would be better to let things be. I still play Shogun SP. I will play it for as long as it will run on the platform of the day. I consider it a personal treasure, my favorite computer game ever.

What he said.

[Noir]

STW is for me the best TW game, and one of the best games of all times. Its strong concept, the great and balanced gameplay and the in-depth unmatched atmosphere still give reason to TW fans to "ask" features/gameplay elements from that game to the new ones as well as in their modifications. With the brief exception of some features and fixes in MTW, CA never came up with a single original idea eversince STW as far as i can see.

Not that it'll make much difference anyway, but to answer the OP, i think that M2 is a waste of time as a game, being superficial, unchallenging with childish/populistic atmosphere, a rush fest on the battlefield and generally a poor gameplay and i sincerely won't bother at all if they "do the same" with a "new" Shogun.

[Seijitai]

I have the same opinion than Noir... With Shogun, I discovered the feudal japan... So that game really keep a place on my heart. Talking about a Shogun 2... Well, if it keep the nowadays "spirit" of M2, it will be without me...

[barocca]

there is, of course, the port of Shogun to the Medieval(1) engine under construction (follow my sig)

[Akeichi Mitsuhide]

Shogun brought me into Feudal Japan and the TW series. Dammn i want CA to do a remake like M2TW. Im gonna storm the main office of CA if they wont make Shogun II - Total War after Kingdoms.

[Puzz3D]

I have the same opinion than Noir... With Shogun, I discovered the feudal japan... So that game really keep a place on my heart. Talking about a Shogun 2... Well, if it keep the nowadays "spirit" of M2, it will be without me...

When Ran no Jidai is released, you might pick up a multiplayer following because both STW and MTW have trouble running on new hardware and M2TW multiplayer has a serious lag issue.

[Shieldmaiden]

I'd love to see a STW2 - but it would never be able to recapture the magic and excitement of STW.

It would just be.. different. Perhaps it would be better to put a different spin on a Shogun 2, rather than try - and probably fail -to recapture the feel of the original.

[Togakure]

... Perhaps it would be better to put a different spin on a Shogun 2 ...

Personally I'd rather see them try something new and leave medieval Japan alone. Given their current approach, there are plenty of options that would reap greater financial rewards. They are merchants, after all.

[IrishArmenian]

I believe it must be done as a large community mod project, as it would be much better that way and everyone would definitley want to work on it!

[Eufarius]

Shogun brought me into Feudal Japan and the TW series. Dammn i want CA to do a remake like M2TW. Im gonna storm the main office of CA if they wont make Shogun II - Total War after Kingdoms.

if you want to help go to https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...54#post1614654

[Kagemusha]

When Ran no Jidai is released, you might pick up a multiplayer following because both STW and MTW have trouble running on new hardware and M2TW multiplayer has a serious lag issue.

There is a place open for a veteran MP player as stat creator/balancer in RNJ.

[Kazuma]

Personally, I think Shogun is the best of the Total War series. I think they should do to Shogun what they did to Medieval. Make the game with some new features and better graphics.... I would buy it...


Just my opinion...

I love the original Shogun Total War. A refurbished and improved version would definitely be on my "must buy" list.

Currently I'm waiting for the Ran no Jidai mod.

[Wasp]

It should capture the atmosphere, before I could be really happy with it. However, some sort of addition to Shogun (1), with a few good options, such as trade, would be more than welcome. It doesn't need a big graphics overhaul as far as I'm concerned.

[Robert the Kingmaker]

I would prefer that CA moves on with something new. We are getting Empire but after that I wouldn't mind seeing a China or Modern Day Total War. Once that's finished, then they could go back to refurbishing classics. I just have a feeling that if CA were to touch Shogun again, many people would be disappointed with the results.

[Wasp]

I would prefer that CA moves on with something new. We are getting Empire but after that I wouldn't mind seeing a China or Modern Day Total War. Once that's finished, then they could go back to refurbishing classics. I just have a feeling that if CA were to touch Shogun again, many people would be disappointed with the results.

A good point, at least your last sentence. I don't care much for 'new' Total War games after Rome and Medieval II (call me an old whiner if you must! ), but perhaps when they'd do a Shogun II, it'd feel right again.

[caravel]

Unfortunately any remake of STW would be based on the RTW/M2TW engine this would make it as much of a disaster as those two.

[Graphic]

I wish they made this instead of Empires.

My dream is a far east Total War game that includes China, Korea, Mongolia, Japan, and the like. China has been slept on in the Total War series which sucks because for so long they were one of the most technologically advanced armies in the world.

They could do that and then something like Kingdoms where there are some smaller more focused campaigns. A Shogun:TW style campaign, maybe a Mongolia campaign where you play Genghis Khan uniting the nomads, some Three Kingdoms and warring states stuff.

I can dream...

[Martok]

Unfortunately any remake of STW would be based on the RTW/M2TW engine this would make it as much of a disaster as those two.

While I admittedly share your skepticism as to how a Shogun sequel would turn out, I do feel compelled to disagree about whether it would be based on the Rome/Medieval 2 engine. Given that an entirely new engine has been developed for Empire TW, I would imagine that Shogun 2 would be based on that instead.

And of course this is assuming Shogun 2 is even the next game in the series after Empire -- something I rather doubt myself. Even if CA *is* eventually planning on remaking Shogun, I'd be fairly surprised if it turns out to be the title following Empire. In all likelihood, I'd say we have a wait of at least another 4 years, by which point CA will have (presumably) created their 4th-generation engine (Empire being the 3rd-generation engine).

On the other hand, the AI is supposedly going to be greatly improved in the newest engine, with the diplomatic and military decisions being handled by a single AI (instead of the first 4 titles where the diplomatic and military AI rarely seemed to be speak with each other at all). So who knows?

[caravel]

I somehow doubt that a new engine would reintroduce the old tactical battles and risk style map of the first two TW games. But we shall see I suppose.

[Noir]

Originally posted by Martok
On the other hand, the AI is supposedly going to be greatly improved in the newest engine, with the diplomatic and military decisions being handled by a single AI (instead of the first 4 titles where the diplomatic and military AI rarely seemed to be speak with each other at all).

Just a comment:

I had the impression that this was the case for only the two latest titles (RTW/M2), both from the interviews previews i read as well as my own experience; i mean in STW/MTW backstabbings have a certain logic behind them and they do not happen 1 turn after you make an allaince too often, as is much more frequently the case in RTW/M2. I might however be wrong.

As for ETW, my main reservation is that the TW AI so far couldn't properly handle shooters at all; i cannot imagine how it would do especially in an era where gunpowder dominates while also having to put development weight in the naval battles and in making the new engine... the idea for the game is good but i'm very little convinced regarding the implementation.

Noir

[Nobunaga]

On the other hand, the AI is supposedly going to be greatly improved in the newest engine, with the diplomatic and military decisions being handled by a single AI (instead of the first 4 titles where the diplomatic and military AI rarely seemed to be speak with each other at all).

This see this as only marketing hype, I really doubt that anything (except from graphics) gonna improve...

[Martok]

I somehow doubt that a new engine would reintroduce the old tactical battles and risk style map of the first two TW games. But we shall see I suppose.

Personally, I could handle a 3D map....if the AI could actually handle it properly. So long as the battles are truly tactical in nature, I would be okay with that. I know you doubt that such a combination is possible -- and frankly, so do I -- but I've decided I'm not automatically going to be pessimistic this time around. I'm still skeptical, but I retain a certain degree of hope (regardless of how foolish it may be to do so).

Just a comment:

I had the impression that this was the case for only the two latest titles (RTW/M2), both from the interviews previews i read as well as my own experience; i mean in STW/MTW backstabbings have a certain logic behind them and they do not happen 1 turn after you make an allaince too often, as is much more frequently the case in RTW/M2. I might however be wrong.

I think you're at least partially right about that. The military & diplomacy AI seemed to have done a bit better job of talking to each other in Shogun and MTW, but it still wasn't great. I would say it's really been a problem prevalent throughout the series thus far, and that it was simply that much worse in RTW & Medieval 2. That's just my impression, however -- I don't claim to be any more right than you.

[Noir]

Originally posted by Martok
..but I've decided I'm not automatically going to be pessimistic this time around. I'm still skeptical, but I retain a certain degree of hope (regardless of how foolish it may be to do so).

I take more the stance of an observer as frankly i have given up hope that CA may produce battles as rich and deep in tactics as in the first two games; i don't think that they can't do it, i realised that they don't care to do it. They go for breadth instead of depth to catch as many fish in the net as possible.

They market now the naval battles as the next big thing as if land battles in M2 were the pinnacle of balance and gameplay; you can see though that most people clearly don't care, neither find the fact that CA aims too high suspicious, despite the RTW and M2 releases, that were full of bugs imbalances and problems of all sorts.

Jawdropping peaked with a couple of screenshots and scarcely anyone mentions that developping sea battles (totally new) with entirely new land battles (shooters that the AI is weak to handle are the main infantry) as well as a new engine may be too much to be handled in two years while keeping quality high (doing testing, bug clearing as well as balancing).

CA in a sense is innocent; had RTW been ignored and slandered for its superficiality, arcadiness and unfinished state, they would have most likely turned back to a more "niche" quality archetype and sing a very different tune altogether. Now though, that RTW brought them fame & fortune ("the best strategy game ever", "100%" etc) they'll naturally keep on the same track.

[Puzz3D]

From the recent interview with PCGamer:

"We've always wanted to do naval battles," says Mike Simpson, "but we've always wanted to do them properly - that's why we haven't tackled them in previous games. It's a big chunk. If you're going to do it, you have to do it really, really, really well."

Then he says:

"The cannonballs can damage the hull, they'll damage the panels they go through, they'll kill individual men, they also knock down masts, tear sails off... that obviously affects the manoeuvrability of your ships. You can tell your ships whether you want to aim at the sails or at the hull, or at the men on the decks."

You can aim cannonballs at the men? This is Mike Simpson's idea of doing naval battles really, really, really well?

Also in that interview he says:

"It's easy to design a complicated system. Hard to design an easy system that retains flavour"

The only complicated systems that are easy to design are ones that don't work properly. The problem with using an easy system, as he is apparently trying to do in Empire Total War, is that simplistic systems don't simulate complex physical processes very well. The elegance of the original STW battle engine is how well it simulates the battles with a moderately complex system.

Also in that interview James Russell, lead designer, says:

"We will have a fire button. It's a sort of override tool so you can time your shot when you want to. And timing is critical. Let off muskets too early, and you won't do enough damage. Let off your muskets too late in the face of a cavalry charge, and you've got every chance of being crushed by a flying dead horse."

Flying Dead Horses?


BTW, I have news for James Russell and the new fire button feature. You can shoot when you want to in the original STW engine as well.

[R'as al Ghul]

BTW, I have news for James Russell and the new fire button feature. You can shoot when you want to in the original STW engine as well.

Psst. Don't tell anyone. They want to sell this new feature.

Btw, i recently had a look at the section "Tips & Tricks" at the .com.
There's such a section for all 4 titles.
If you take 5 minutes to go over there and compare the sections of STW and MTW, which are almost similar, to the sections of RTW and M2, you'll know all that's wrong with the series since MTW. At least from my point of view.

R'as

[Noir]

Originally posted by Puzz3D
Flying Dead Horses?

I missed that one. It's like the Beatles song in Seargent Pepper's:

"... it's getting better all the time..."

Originally posted by Puzz3D
BTW, I have news for James Russell and the new fire button feature. You can shoot when you want to in the original STW engine as well.

And in all the other games too... Endless the list of innovations in Empire as yet..