EB AI question

**Zarax** · 07-10-2007, 13:27

Hi, I've stumbled upon many references of AI recruiting mercs in EB while I've never seen such a behaviour in vanilla or other mods I play.
Does EB uses any special way to make AI factions use mercenaries?

**The Errant** · 07-10-2007, 14:20

Yes and no. The merc recruitment has to do with the scripted money assistance. The RTW AI hates the human player. As a result it will keep recruiting new troops to fight you until it runs out of population or money.
Blockading ports dosen't affect the AI in any noticable way in EB.
Since the AI never goes into financial straits due to this limitless treasury. It is less likely to accept diplomatic proposals and more likely to try to solve things by force.

It will use a force of native troops it recruited to try to pound you into submission. If you survive that due to excellent tactics and fighting it will simply spam another one. Due to some regions being very merc heavy the AI will often choose to recruit an all mercenary stack. The reasoning (RTW coding?) is simply that they are available immediatly and since the AI allways has the money, it's easier for it to hire an insta-stack of mercs then spend several turns recruiting native troops from it's settlements.

The problem is highlighted if you use one of the money scripts without the modified merc file. Even when the AI has the MIC's to recruit native troops of good or excellent quality it will often supplement it's stack with some mercs to give it added punch. Only when you beat one of these stacks does it recruit the full mercenary stack. Simply put. The AI has too much money and access to too many mercs. On the other hand if it didn't have the money, it would be a pushover for the human player. Not much challenge in that.

**Zarax** · 07-10-2007, 15:17

does AI also try to bribe eleutheroi stack in your knowledge?

**mars2024** · 07-10-2007, 15:35

"The AI has too much money and access to too many mercs. On the other hand if it didn't have the money, it would be a pushover for the human player. Not much challenge in that."

That's the biggest problem I have with this mod. I can hardly field an army, let alone build one up, because of crushing upkeep and who knows what else. Then I visit a neighbor and he's building a stronger-than-militia unit every turn.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a challenge and I understand this was designed to overcome a dumb AI, but I thought that the whole point of this mod was to be accurate and historical. You almost have to blitz everyone, since the first turn is where everyone is equal. I don't mind a little subsidy, but the way it is now is just frustrating. I'd rather play vanilla.

-j

**Redmeth** · 07-10-2007, 15:50

That's why there are money scripts made and when the next version comes along the mercs will be put under more control hopefully.

**The Errant** · 07-10-2007, 16:07

Originally Posted by Zarax

does AI also try to bribe eleutheroi stack in your knowledge?

No. Not Eleutheroi stacks. Easier to conquer using troops. The AI's priorities appear to be troops, mercs and lastly infrastructure. With the exception of the Eleutheroi (Slave) faction that appears to favor infrastructure more than the other AI factions.

During testing of the money script we noticed that sometimes the AI would send a lone family member to merc heavy province to wait for years (8-12) turns and sometimes more. Just so he could recruit the mercs when they respawned there. The AI could have recruited a sizeable stack of native troops in the same time, but couldn't be bothered for some reason.

I've never seen the AI bribe and Eleutheroi stack, or general for that matter. But with the vanilla EB money script they will bribe any and all your troops led by a captain if they can afford it. They bribed no less than five cities without governors in my Pontic campaign. Plus two field armies without a family member in charge.

The only way to avoid this is to have a stack of assassins to kill every AI diplomat in sight. And usually those diplomats have enough personal security traits, that sending a bunch of green assassins against them is a waste of time and money.

These problems are the reason some of us started modding the money scripts in the first place. The goal was to limit the AI treasury to stop the @#*&!$ AI stack spamming and to help some of the more passive AI factions to move. Later when mlp071 noticed the inbalance between factional troops and mercs. That too (the mercs) became an issue to be modded. AI balance is not easy to mod. It takes a long time and lots of trial and error to get anywhere close to the results you want. But EB is definately worth it.

**larsbecks** · 07-10-2007, 16:09

Originally Posted by mars2024

"The AI has too much money and access to too many mercs. On the other hand if it didn't have the money, it would be a pushover for the human player. Not much challenge in that."

That's the biggest problem I have with this mod. I can hardly field an army, let alone build one up, because of crushing upkeep and who knows what else. Then I visit a neighbor and he's building a stronger-than-militia unit every turn.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a challenge and I understand this was designed to overcome a dumb AI, but I thought that the whole point of this mod was to be accurate and historical. You almost have to blitz everyone, since the first turn is where everyone is equal. I don't mind a little subsidy, but the way it is now is just frustrating. I'd rather play vanilla.

-j

There are a few solutions to your problem. Use Add_money (i'm not sure if this is the correct command line) to give yourself a little boost, modify the script to give less money, and less start up money (ebbs script and the one in the world/campaign folder), or make the unit costs and upkeeps half of what the already are in the unit file. There is also a file in the mod section which reduces the amount, replenishment, and increases costs of mercs. It is in redmeth's signature.

**Lysander13** · 07-11-2007, 05:07

Originally Posted by mars2024

That's the biggest problem I have with this mod. I can hardly field an army, let alone build one up, because of crushing upkeep and who knows what else. Then I visit a neighbor and he's building a stronger-than-militia unit every turn.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a challenge and I understand this was designed to overcome a dumb AI, but I thought that the whole point of this mod was to be accurate and historical. You almost have to blitz everyone, since the first turn is where everyone is equal. I don't mind a little subsidy, but the way it is now is just frustrating. I'd rather play vanilla.

-j

Historical accuracy is obviously an important element of EB. However, historical accuracy has to be fit within the limitations of the RTW engine or any game engine for that matter not to mention balanced against challenging gameplay. Which was exactly what Vanilla RTW mangled and EB has pulled off pretty damn well in my opinion. I daresay Vanilla RTW was pretty easy not to mention outright boring until it started to be modded. EB took RTW to a whole new level. What you call frustrating gameplay, obviously many others find to be entertaining and challenging gameplay considering the limitations of the game engine we are talking about. So in the end, those who truly want a challenge not to mention all the extra "historical goodies" then EB is for you. If you want the "appearance" of a challenge then go on to steamroll the entire map in about 30 turns....Vanilla it is then.