Janissaries, can someone explain them to me?

[atheotes]

I honestly think this helps balance the JHI a little. I was getting sick of sending 4 units of JHI against 10 DFK's and coming out with only 10% losses at most

You faced AI armies with 10 DFKs in them ??????????? you are one lucky guy

[Slaists]

As things stand now (the unit being "balanced" for 1.00), JHI's are not really what they're supposed to be. Their stats are similar to an average Ax-handling barbarian unit (Croatian axemen, etc.) and the gap between JHI's and dismounted English knights, for example, is enormous.

I guess, to balance things out, we need to upgrade their attack considerably or give them a spearwall formation.

[Betito]

IMO, The thing that JHI needs is more defense:

Janissary archers have a defense ability of 8, i think
Janissary muskets have a defense ability of 9
How come JHI, the melee experts of the janissaries, have a defense ability of only 5? BTW 5 armour seems ok to me.

My opinion is that they should have at least the same defense ability of muskets, or even archers.

The attack value shown in the stats is actually very misleading: those 12 attack points are worth so much more thant what it may appear.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

IMO, The thing that JHI needs is more defense:

Janissary archers have a defense ability of 8, i think
Janissary muskets have a defense ability of 9
How come JHI, the melee experts of the janissaries, have a defense ability of only 5? BTW 5 armour seems ok to me.

My opinion is that they should have at least the same defense ability of muskets, or even archers.

The attack value shown in the stats is actually very misleading: those 12 attack points are worth so much more thant what it may appear.

JHI have 10 defense
JA have 13 defense
JM have 14 defense

JHI can defeat DEKs. Not easily but they can defeat them. This is possibly because of a bug in the animations of the DEK. I have defeated English armies full of DEKs, Demi Lancers and of course (sigh) mortars and trebuchets with my Turkish army consisting of 6 JHI, 6, JA, some Saracen / mercenary spears and some Quapukulu.

[Betito]

@Monsieur Alphonse
Yes, i am aware of the Total defense number; i just focused on the component 'defense ability' because, from my perspective, it is meant to be a direct measure of the man's "skill" to fight (well, to stay alive during a fight); and it's there where i disagree with the number assigned to JHI

Edit: Just checked the stats, and i noted that all of the janissaries have armour of 5. Also JHI indeed have 5 defense ability, JA have 8, and JM have 9

[Monsieur Alphonse]

@ Betito

Since you are talking about the defense skill, I agree with you that these numbers are very odd. Why do JHI have a skill of 5 and musketeers a skill of 9? The numbers would suggest that Janissary musketeers are almost twice as good in defending than ordinary the Janissary infantry. I think that CA made a lot of very strange choices regarding the skill numbers. If you look at English heavy cavalry you will notice that the best knights (English knights) have 4 skill and the earlier knights have 5 defense skill. One would think that later units would have more skill because of the development in knowledge.

The problem is that attack and defense values can't be used to compare units. I hope that CA will correct this so people can use the stats to compare units.

[andrewt]

Well, wearing heavier armor would restrict movement somewhat and detract from the skill aspect of defense. I agree, though, that the JHI need a defense skill buff now that the shield bug is fixed.

[HoreTore]

@ Betito

Since you are talking about the defense skill, I agree with you that these numbers are very odd. Why do JHI have a skill of 5 and musketeers a skill of 9? The numbers would suggest that Janissary musketeers are almost twice as good in defending than ordinary the Janissary infantry. I think that CA made a lot of very strange choices regarding the skill numbers. If you look at English heavy cavalry you will notice that the best knights (English knights) have 4 skill and the earlier knights have 5 defense skill. One would think that later units would have more skill because of the development in knowledge.

The problem is that attack and defense values can't be used to compare units. I hope that CA will correct this so people can use the stats to compare units.

That's because of the weapon they are using. The defense value is linked at how easy the weapon the unit has is to defend with. Musketeers are armed with a sword, which is an easier weapon to defend yourself with(up close) than a halberd. There are some variations within the weapons though to reflect the different skill of the user.

All stats are actually linked to the weapons used by the unit. Attack has some standard values for different weapons(like 9 and 11 for the axe), the same goes for charge, defense, shield(size) and armour(quality).

The final stats of a unit is therefore decided like this:

1. What equipment is used
2. Which "level" of skill the user has

For example, take the DFK:

Attack 13: They use a sword, and have the highest level of skill with it, so they have an attack of 13
Charge 3: The standard value of almost every standard size weapon
Armour 7: Heavy mail
Defense skill 8: Due to the Sword, which is easy to defend with
Shield 6: They use the largest shields