Chariots taking me for a ride!

**Bwian** · 07-15-2007, 13:02

Done a few tests to verify ... and animerge works fine with horses/elephants ... but the animation extract does NOT produce a cas file from the MS3D file. I did this with a stock unchanged horse.

This is a pain.... doubly so, since the Max plugin Caliban released does not work with Max as far as I can tell.... or at least, no-one seems to be reporting it as actually working!

**Bwian** · 07-17-2007, 21:47

Next Test ... step by step as I do it :

The test model was 'mount_heavy_horse_lod0.mesh'. It was converted into an MS3D file using converter version 1.04, and the resulting MS3D file was opened in milkshape. The bones were 'zeroed' and the file was saved with the bones set at zero rotation.

Next, the skeleton was extracted using the latest release ( 1.1 ) of the utilities. The output in the skeleton file looks like this:

Code:

+0.0000000000  +0.0000000000  +0.0000000000    0  bone_H_Saddle
-0.0001452830  -0.0151966996  +0.4446060061    1  bone_Spine
-0.0006578590  -0.0245500989  +0.4198270440    2  bone_Spine1
-0.0008467390  +0.0139799975  +0.5470259190    3  bone_Neck
-0.0071678599  +0.5777239799  +0.4736510515    4  bone_Head
+0.2537220120  -0.2715969980  +0.5931140184    3  bone_RightArm
-0.0000306070  -0.3205270171  +0.0193389654    6  bone_RightForeArm
-0.0000488162  -0.4961239696  +0.0302742720    7  bone_RightHand
-0.0000340939  -0.3660830259  +0.0222389698    8  bone_RightFingerBase
-0.2555060089  -0.2715960145  +0.5923159122    3  bone_LeftArm
-0.0000304878  -0.3205200136  +0.0193104744   10  bone_LeftForeArm
-0.0000469685  -0.4961230159  +0.0303035975   11  bone_LeftHand
-0.0000362992  -0.3660819530  +0.0222394466   12  bone_LeftFingerBase
+0.0002688530  +0.0194744002  -0.2931849957    1  bone_Tail1
+0.0005695900  -0.3195210099  -0.3636940122   14  bone_Tail2
+0.2247990072  -0.2321140021  -0.1584759951    1  bone_RightUpLeg
-0.0000070184  -0.3785619736  +0.0039954484   16  bone_RightLeg
+0.0000009686  -0.4450979829  +0.0000083745   17  bone_RightFoot
-0.0000018179  -0.6024720669  -0.0000081211   18  bone_RightToeBase
-0.2339520007  -0.2229759991  -0.1583569944    1  bone_LeftUpLeg
-0.0000050515  -0.3876999915  +0.0031598955   20  bone_LeftLeg
+0.0000087619  -0.4450979829  +0.0000056773   21  bone_LeftFoot
+0.0000151992  -0.6024720669  -0.0000081062   22  bone_LeftToeBase

Looks fine so far, and this is correct with regard ot my understanding of how the thing should be built up

Next, being completely happy that my base MS3d file is a good one, I run the animmerge, and choose the solid MS3D file and .... for preference ...the 'run' animation for the horse. All animations were given the 20 frames per second option in the dialoge box.

The resulting MS3D file is called 'mount_heavy_horse_lod0_animby_fs_fast_horse_run.ms3d' and opens up fine in milkshape and the animation plays just fine.

Next ... I run animation extract. No actual output is created, but there are error messages in the DOS window.

(hope that has come out clear enough to be helpful)

This was run using a 100% stock model on a completely stock animation, with the latest animation toolset.

When I try to run a similar process for the elephant ... animerge fails and I cannot create an MS3D animation file to look at or convert back. Error in line 525 ... with a 'list index out of range'.

Camels convert to and from CAS file perfectly, though the gallop file I created went from 5Kb to 8Kb in the process. I have not yet tested it in game, but I am just pleased that content has been created.

**uanime5** · 07-17-2007, 22:14

I can't help you with the technical details but I have an idea regarding the number of people in the chariot.

You could alter the chariot mesh so that it looks like there is a person controlling the chariot inside the chariot (the controller would be part of the chariot, not a seperate person, but would look like a seperate unit). So long as the controller moved slightly as the chariot moved (to make the controller look less like a fixed object) you'd only need one rider (independent of the chariot) in the chariot.

**KnightErrant** · 07-18-2007, 03:48

Hi Bwian,

Bummer on the internet connection being down. This is good,
since no mods you've obviously isolated a conversion problem.
Can't run it tonight, but I'm e-mailing myself at work and can try
it at lunch tomorrow. Glad you're testing mounts, this is the weakest
part of the utilities because they have the most non-standard .cas
formats and this (hopefully) is what you've found.

Regards,

KE

**KnightErrant** · 07-19-2007, 04:55

@Bwian,

Well, my early onset dementia must have been kicking
in when I worked on the mounts part. Could you edit
animationutilities.py and on line 1094 could you comment
out the line like the following:

Code:

#        float_vec3.fromfile( fidcas, 7 )

using the pound sign "#". What the heck that is doing there
I have no idea. Anyway, it ran and produced a .cas file.
If your editor doesn't do line numbers, do a search for

Code:

def getcasfooter

to get to the function, then search for

Code:

fidcas

That should get you to the offending line.

Mea Culpa,

KE

**GrumpyOldMan** · 07-19-2007, 07:44

Hi All

Just floating through in a cameo appearance

. Just a thought for anybody that's planning to make any new skeletons for chariots, or anything else for that matter. With the shader technology there is a maximum number of bones that a skeleton can have before it has to be split up into separate pieces for animation, without anything else in the shader you can have a maximum of 64 but with everything else going on in the shader a more realistic number would be 40. Since I haven't seen any skeletons in MTW2 go over this amount I'd suggest you use this as a working maximum.

So for example a chariot as one entity with four bones for the actual chariot body, driver with 20 bones and two horses with ~ 25 bones each would not make a viable skeleton

Something to bear in mind if you're designing something from the ground up, if CA don't have any skeletons above 40 then they probably won't have any built in mechanisms to split up skeletons over two calls to the shader.

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

**Bwian** · 07-19-2007, 10:48

Trickery will reduce that

the skeleton will only have a couple of extra bones to make the pole/axle setup. The horses will use the same skeleton, and the animation will just mean they are in step. Custs donw a LOT on both the extra bones and the need to revise animations for the horse. I don't see it being a problem, but it is good to know that there is a limit to work around, and something to make sure I don;t exceed!

KE ... I will test this tonight and let you know how it goes. If it works, I will have a rough chariot runnig around in the game before I go to bed tonight!