Siege engines in field battles

[kublikhan3]

What do you guys think about having the option to use siege weapons in field battles? I would love to drive a battering ram into a pikeman formation and then slaughtered them from their newly exposed flank. Was anything like that done historically? I know flaming logs were rolled downhill/off of castle walls, but what about level terrain or slightly on a hill?

[Kadagar_AV]

use a ram to break up a spear formation?

Do you have like ANY idea how slow a ram is? The effort needed to push it?

To answer your question though, various forms of dirty tricks has been used on the battlefields through the years.... cows rampaging, setting sheeps on fire...

It even goes on to modern combat, the russians trained dogs to run up to tanks with explosives... *good doggie doggie BOOM* They made a mistake however and trained teh dogs on russian tanks, dogs being smarter than the russians thought then at once set off in the completely wrong direction, did all tehy could think of to avoid enemy tanks, and stormed the own lines...

[Galapagos]

Flaming logs would be nice...

[DVX BELLORVM]

What do you guys think about having the option to use siege weapons in field battles? I would love to drive a battering ram into a pikeman formation and then slaughtered them from their newly exposed flank.

I'd love to use the Ladders to climb onto the Timurid elephants, kill off their crews and turn the elephants against their own troops

[Privateerkev]

use a ram to break up a spear formation?

Do you have like ANY idea how slow a ram is? The effort needed to push it?

To answer your question though, various forms of dirty tricks has been used on the battlefields through the years.... cows rampaging, setting sheeps on fire...

It even goes on to modern combat, the russians trained dogs to run up to tanks with explosives... *good doggie doggie BOOM* They made a mistake however and trained teh dogs on russian tanks, dogs being smarter than the russians thought then at once set off in the completely wrong direction, did all tehy could think of to avoid enemy tanks, and stormed the own lines...

Its like when the US military in WW2 was training bats to set fire to the wooden buildings in Japan and ended up having parts of a base in New Mexico burnt down.

Project X-ray

[Kadagar_AV]

DVX, just go legolas on their ass...

privateerkev, LOL! *golfclap*

[icek]

lol, i would love to see ai spearmen wait for ram to hit them

[Monsieur Alphonse]

I'd love to use the Ladders to climb onto the Timurid elephants, kill off their crews and turn the elephants against their own troops

How do I mod them in the game. I want them mounted and dismounted.

Dismounted ladders here I come

[Didz]

I'd love to use the Ladders to climb onto the Timurid elephants, kill off their crews and turn the elephants against their own troops

Nah! just hire an Elf, its cheaper

Flaming logs would be nice...

You've been watching american movies again

[WhiskeyGhost]

How do I mod them in the game. I want them mounted and dismounted.

Dismounted ladders here I come

hehe turn elephants into a siege weapon perhaps? like similar to a ram or a siege tower?

"Alright guys, i know most of us are kinda ignorant, and are scared to hell of this giant beast, but i want you to scale it, kill the enemies on top, and figure out how to control it so we can use it against them"

[DVX BELLORVM]

How do I mod them in the game. I want them mounted and dismounted.

Dismounted ladders here I come

You could add another unit to the game, as a support for Dismounted ladders: The Peanuts throwers. They'd throw the peanuts in front of the elephants to make them stop and eat the peanuts while your men are climbing. "My Lord, the ladders have reached the elephants!"

[Didz]

How about 'Suicide Mouse Throwers' a much cheaper solution, though you would need to construct special mouse training camps.

[DVX BELLORVM]

How about 'Suicide Mouse Throwers' a much cheaper solution, though your would need to construct special mouse training camps.

A perfect way to rout the elephants.

[John_Longarrow]

All right, this has gotten quite silly. You do realize that using ladders would be totally impractical. You'd never get the elephants to stand still long enough for you to place them, the defenders would fight against you, and the other elephants would simply knock them to the ground. It would never work, never in a million battles.

What you need is siege towers. Roll those up in front of the elephants, have you troops on the top all run to the front at once, and topple them down upon the elephants. Now you've not only removed the riders from the elephants but you've also gotten your troops there in one go! Much better, quicker, faster, and more effectively.

[Per Ole]

How about 'Suicide Mouse Throwers' a much cheaper solution, though you would need to construct special mouse training camps.

Lol this made me think of the rat-flail:


Would be awesome if it was in game :D

[Kadagar_AV]

I'm not sure about siege towers either, they ARE rather clumsy...

Trebubuchets on the other hand could easily (when weighted and modded right) toss one or two specially trained elite soldiers up on the elephants back.

Granted, not over any long distances, but as a last defense when the elephants gets to close for comfort to your battle line.

I mean, try to keep it realistic, mouse brigades and the other rants just had to be a joke, right?

I vision this trebuchet unit to have some selected "gun-ho" troops specially trained to clear the hut on the elephants and then take controll, they must of course have some sort of padded armour to sustain the initial crash down on the elephant and only light weapons for obvious reasons).

[Didz]

How about a two stage delpoyment system for tebuchet bombarbment. The first tebuchet launches a carefully prepared cow skin filled with melted cheese which bursts over the Elephant coating it and its riders with its content. This is then quickly followed by a cage full of half-starved rats with an acid timing device intended to ensure that the lock on the door fails a couple of seconds after launch. The cage opens over the head of the Elephant spilling the starved rats onto it and its crew. E'voila an ancient guided weapon system for deployment against Elephant units.

Or if you think that is two far fetched.

How about the Hoplon Elephant Mine. A unit of Hoplites about to be attacked by elephants quickly rush forward and lay their hoplon on the ground, carefully slipping a small white mouse under it before running back to their ranks. The first Elephant to tread on the edge of a hoplon as it advances will cause it to flip or the opposite edge to lift releasing the mouse. As it shies away to avoid the small rodent it treads on more hoplons releasing more mice and creating a chain reaction leading to the total rout of the Elephants.

[Galapagos]

How about a two stage delpoyment system for tebuchet bombarbment. The first tebuchet launches a carefully prepared cow skin filled with melted cheese which bursts over the Elephant coating it and its riders with its content. This is then quickly followed by a cage full of half-starved rats with an acid timing device intended to ensure that the lock on the door fails a couple of seconds after launch. The cage overs over the head of the Elephant spill the starved rats onto it and its crew. E'voila an ancient guided weapon system for deployment against Elephant units.

Or if you think that is two far fetched.

How about the Hoplon Elephant Mine. A unit of Hoplites about to be attacked by elephants quickly rush forward and lay their hoplon on the ground, carefully slipping a small white mouse under it before running back to their ranks. The first Elephant to tread on the edge of a hoplon as it advances will cause it to flip or the opposite edge to lift releasing the mouse. As it shies away to avoid the small rodent it treads on more hoplons releasing more mice and creating a chain reaction leading to the total rout of the Elephants.

lol lol lol lol

[Didz]

All right, this has gotten quite silly. You do realize that using ladders would be totally impractical. You'd never get the elephants to stand still long enough for you to place them, the defenders would fight against you, and the other elephants would simply knock them to the ground. It would never work, never in a million battles.

You would need a variation on DVX's Peanut Thrower Squad, which places baskets of peanuts under the nose of the Elephant at the precise moment when the Ladder Assault Team were about to launch their final attack.

The ladders would need to be self-supporting, perhaps something like an early model for an airport gangway where the ladder is propped up on a wheeled carriage so that it could just be pushed up against the side of a feeding Elephant perhaps with the first of the assault squad already at the end.

A variation on this could be some form of early trampet system where the first squad merely throws the trampet close to the side of the Elephant so that a clevely trained set of warrior gymnasts could then bounce their way up to the men on its back, perhaps doing a few back flips to just to confuse them.

Another option would be to issue pikemen with modified pikes that have a 'V' shaped termination capable of supporting the end of a ladder. Using this a group of pikemen could march up to a feeding Elephant and raise the ladder above their heads so that the assault squad could rush up it.

[Galapagos]

[Didz]

I didn't think we were off topic?????

This thread is about the practicalities of using seige weapons in a battle, and so the problems of mounting Elephants with seige ladders is perfectly valid isn't it?

Certainly as valid a ramming a pike formation with a battering ram. Admittedly the Gymnastic trampet is not an existing seige engine but it could be introduced as a special form of one man catapult in the next release, along with the flamethrowers.

Also the questions was: What do you guys think about having the option to use siege weapons in field battles?

And I think thats pretty clear from the responses, I'm looking forward to seeing some of these new weapons appear in the next release. Something, is clearly needed to deal with Timurid Battleship Elephants and it shouldn't take much to change the existing graphic's and routines for Roman War Dogs so that they become hordes of little white mice.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

So the ideal army to beat the Timurids would be:
1 General (preferably an Italian one)
4 Dismounted ladder assault teams
4 Peanut Thrower Squads
4 Siege towers
2 Trebuchets with special selected "gun-ho" soldiers to attack from the air
4 Suicide Mouse Throwers
4 Hoplon Elephant Mine
1 German with humor

Please don't be a acid drinking wise guy to post that this isn't realistic. I know that I have more than twenty units in this army.

[Flavius Merobaudes]

Elite engineers with the pre-battle ability to pull some wires across the battlefield - and the olifants will stumble. But make sure the enemy has no tongs-squads.

[phonicsmonkey]

Monsieur Alphonse, I think you might be putting all your eggs in one basket there....don't want the elephants to see all our clever tactics at once.

After all, they never forget, and I'm quite sure they talk...

On the topic of using siege weapons on the battlefield, what about using RTW sappers against the passive AI?

Imagine them all standing at the bottom of their hill or wherever they've decided to hang out determinedly ignoring your missile fire, and suddenly all falling into pits

or you could mine under the spearwall, come up the other side and kill the general...

[WhiskeyGhost]

Back to the real issue, if you really wanted to board an elephant in a hostile takeover (or even really high walls for that matter) use some grappling hooks =)

also, we need some sort of new unit for Russia, like Bear Calvary as a siege weapon if possible

[Sentinel]

Back to the real issue, if you really wanted to board an elephant in a hostile takeover (or even really high walls for that matter) use some grappling hooks =)

That’s a brilliant idea.
You get the peanut throwers to bait the grappling hooks, attached via a long rope to a large trebuchet.

Then, when to elephant feeds on the nuts (no, not the one’s posting here) you fire the trebuchet and the elephant flies off the map.

Phanta-fishing the new sport.

In mountainous regions-
Battering rams would be devastating when rolled down hill into the enemy.
Ladders could be used to actually reach the inaccessible corner on the map that AI often positions the enemy.

[atheotes]

All right, this has gotten quite silly. You do realize that using ladders would be totally impractical. You'd never get the elephants to stand still long enough for you to place them,

If all else fails to hold the elepahnt in place use the often abused hammer and anvil tactic... use your own elephants to hold the enemies in place Only here instead of destroying/routing the enemy unit you get to USE it !!!!