Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
An assault rifle, or even a semi-auto of that nature is an offensive weapon, the fact that carrying such in an urban area is legal to begin with is questionable, it's not a hunting weapon.
That fact that it was loaded? Well that should qualify him for prison on the grounds that he is a danger to those around him.
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
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Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
Ahoy, you lads 'ave no idear what makes me hearty tick. Like e'ery old sea dog, the Rabbit be married t'his gun!
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
I think CR's point is the legality of the matter. He's making a stand on principle. In principle, I have to agree with him.
But I technically have the legal right to crap in my pants in public, right? Does anybody think that's a good idea? Does anybody really think the police wouldn't be giving me the hairy eyeball, walking around the mall with a load in my pants?
Seriously, if you don't want the government to have to legislate a mandate for common sense, then we're all going to have to exercise some on our own and not stretch the boundaries of what's technically allowable. Brandishing a firearm is a crime in most states, and for a good reason. It ratchets up everyone's tension and threat level, especially as Lemur pointed out, in the post-911 world. If some guy was pacing up and down my street with an assault rifle strapped to his back, damn skippy I'd call the cops (after I loaded a few rounds into my own home defense plan).
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
I don't get it. Why do you equate the right of free speech and the right to own and carry a lethal weapon? Words can't kill anyone, guns can. What's the point of even owning an AK47 in the first place? For protection? That's going over the top, a handgun is enough, and easier to wield. For hunting? Unless you're hunting for people... Free speech is universal and cannot be banned (as long as your constitution still stands), different opinions can make you uncomfortable, but they can't hurt you. Where I'm from, you need a special licence from the police to own a handgun, since it is the Ministry of Internal Affairs alone that can review one's legal and medical history should that person ask for it. And large weapons such as the Avtomat Kalashnikov are out of the question, why would anyone need them anyway, never mind showing them off in public.
If it's legal to own a gun, that doesn't mean it's legal to threaten people with it. Real life isn't GTA, y'now?
Last edited by Milovan; 07-18-2007 at 14:15.
I need scissors! 61!!
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
The reason the right to free speech and the right to bear arms are compared so frequently is that they come from the same place. Theoretically, if the Bill of Rights is a 'living breathing document' that needs to be changed on the fly to account for modern weaponry, then it's just as easily alterable at a whim to account for modern communication. Call it a 'slippery slope' argument, but one with a lot of merit.Originally Posted by WarHeart88
When you come right down to it, forget the 2nd ammendment for a second, all the original 'rights' conferred in the original Bill of Rights have been watered down and/or corrupted to a point that they no longer serve their intended purpose. You CAN be searched at a whim. You CAN be forced to house/support occupying troops. Our army DOES get called out to clean up civil disturbances.
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
So.... In the US, some people willing to defend me if I walk around with an automatic 7.62 rifle with the intent of going on a killing spree - as long I was stopped by the police before I fired a shot?
Interesting....
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
It's this qualifying line that changes the entire reaction, Hore Tore. What if it was...
I'm playing devil's advocate, by the way. I've already agreed with you in practice on this particular issue. I just don't think it's proof positive that gun ownership rights need to be discontinued, which appears to be where you're headed.
Last edited by Don Corleone; 07-18-2007 at 14:48.
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man."
Don Vito Corleone: The Godfather, Part 1.
"Then wait for them and swear to God in heaven that if they spew that bull to you or your family again you will cave there heads in with a sledgehammer"
Strike for the South
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
Well, I said I was going to a target shooting, but in reality, my targets were humans at a mall. However, nobody knows this but me.
You'll still support me?
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
The founding fathers did not invent free speech.
To say that the 2nd ammendment is there to protect opposition to the government sounds like an excuse. The US government and presidents have been lying to you guys for ages now, REBEL ALREADY! How does walking around with a loaded AK47 in a suburban area constitute as exercising one's right to rebel against a repressive government?
You don't need guns to overthrow a dictator. The only ones with guns on the streets of Belgrade on the 5th October 2000 were the Milošević faithful among the police.
I need scissors! 61!!
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
WarHeart88: I think Don Corleone means it differently. Namely, that both the Right to Free Speech and the Right to Bear Arms (the latter asserted in an incredibly pathetically vague statement) in the USA comes from the same legal justification: the Bill of Rights, or the first ten Amendments to the US Constitution.
From that viewpoint his point is firm in principle. Sure for the modern Western world everyone with half a brain (excluding social conservatives, but since when did they ever have brains?) think that Freedom of Speech is a fundamental, inalienable right or at least it should be. But from a legal standpoint that's where the rights come from in the USA, and I think I can safely assert that governments like to take away rights whenever they could so a clear, inalienable legal standpoint is required to protect such rights from incursions.
That it's already failed countless time is another topic*mumbles something about the Patriot Act and Neocon scumbags*
The whole "we need guns to fight the dictatorial government" is just propaganda/excuse BS. It was true back when "the government" was the British Empire trying to subdue the American rebels in the hills of Massachusetts; it's not true in the era of F-117's, Reality TV's, and crowd control weapons.
I was never enamoured with guns (then again I was never enamoured with cars, so my hippie credentials is probably stronger than half of liberal America at least) and can't see why anyone would think it's cool to walk around with loaded Kalashnikovs in public. Gun Control Ninny I am? Well, if that's what it takes to not have loonies walk around with frickin' loaded Kalashnikovs in public.
Last edited by AntiochusIII; 07-18-2007 at 16:01.
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
I know how he meant it, that's just my point. The right to free speech is universal wherever you go, whenever you live. The loosely defined right to bear arms was written down 200+ years ago so that an invading or colonial force would not be allowed to take the land.
And you're right, it is a pathetic excuse for gun-lovers; when you go to a protest, you don't bring an Avtomat Kalashnikov along with you...
Don't you think that all this controversy regarding guns "masks" (to an extent) problems regarding freedom of speech? If someone attends a presidential speech carrying symbols of support (badges and whatnot, it might as well be a gun) they're welcome, but if they're disagreeing they can be removed even though they're not threatening anyone? How many people have been dubbed as "anti-American" because they don't agree with the war?
I need scissors! 61!!
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
The idea of the second admendment, with the founders being the extremely parinoid people that they were, was to stop the government from trying to remove opposition from being armed thus leaving the said opposition open to a greater degree of control. In short it serves as the final and most terriable check on our government and gurrentees the right to rebellion in event that the social contract is broken.
When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
-Stephen Crane
Re: Legal Actions Become Illegal If People Say They Are Alarmed
Loaded Pants sounds like a good movie title if you ask me.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
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