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  1. #1
    Notepad user Member Red Spot's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    Aradan, I know(still apreciate you mentioning it), my groundtype modifiers are ~at 0.8 wich makes eg legionaries able to get trow a pilum before getting charged by cavalry (in general!), didnt post that as I figured it was relativly "general info" :D
    (imo at ~0.8 is pretty good "allround" higher and certain animations are too slow to prevent AI/player imbalances, too low and animations get ugly as it looks like a unit is running its behind of while it hardly is moving (+ that it over-balances ranged units)

    I agree that 7 seems to be the magic number, my lvl3(+) units never show more than a total of 7 where some should imo at least show 8 ....
    Interesting though that the sapping ability is the one causing problems, I'd sooner be looking at like the turtle formation(just try to use it on other units ..:P)


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  2. #2
    Finder of Little Oddities Senior Member Makanyane's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    Re: my earlier comments on the 'abilities at a glance' on the unit info screens not turning up - I haven't got a conclusive reason but can give some examples

    Unit with:
    attributes sea_faring, can_sap
    and
    stat_ground 1, 1, -1, -1
    does NOT have abilities shown in screen.

    Unit with:
    attributes hide_forest, can_sap
    and
    stat_ground 1, 1, -1, -1
    DOES have abilities shown in screen, Red Spot was on to something with that..

    but also
    Unit with:
    attributes sea_faring, can_sap
    and
    stat_ground 1, 1, -2, -1
    DOES have abilities shown in screen.

    Unit with:
    attributes sea_faring, druid, can_swim, can_sap
    and
    stat_ground 1, 1, -1, -1
    does NOT have abilities shown in screen, but if you switch sea_faring to hardy it does work

    but also;
    Unit with:
    attributes sea_faring, druid, can_swim, can_sap
    and
    stat_ground 1, 1, -2, -1
    DOES have abilities shown in screen

    also
    Unit with:
    attributes hardy, druid, can_sap
    and
    stat_ground 1, 1, -1, -1
    DOES have abilities shown in screen, though have noticed that the druid attribute isn't mentioned - not sure if it ever is?

    I'm a little lost as to what the linkage is between combinations that do work and ones that don't! Could anyone else have a look and see if they can confirm any of this and come up with some idea why...
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  3. #3
    Member Charge's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    From little testing I've done, with attributes sea_faring, can_sap (or only sea_faring) 'abilities at a glance' shows if I have any parameter in stat_ground 3, or -2. Though if they dont shows, they applies anyway, at least my gallic swordsman with 0,0,0,0 was clearly beaten by britons with 0,2,0,0 in desert.
    So use any hide_forest or any other attributes to make abilities visible, or for non-hideable units big "-" in stat_ground...
    Last edited by Charge; 10-14-2007 at 22:54.

  4. #4
    Finder of Little Oddities Senior Member Makanyane's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    *bump* hopefully question belongs to this topic.

    I was wondering if anyone has managed to come up with any conclusive information about how unit sizes and stats affect auto-calc (other than just auto-calc sucks!) - is there anything you can do within EDU to help an AI faction with smaller unit sizes?
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  5. #5

    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    Guide updated with info on 'short_pike'.

    Other than horse units are seriously underpowered in auto-calc and that heavy mounted missiles are terribly overpowered, nothing conclusive... A nice opportunity to do some testing though. :)

    Did you figure out the can_sap/stat_ground problem? I've had no luck pinning it down.

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  6. #6
    Member Charge's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    Aradan, can you give more detailed explanation of discipline?
    [discipline] : Unit's discipline level, which determines the rate at which its morale is depleted or restored during melee. Can be low, normal, disciplined, impetuous or berserk. Disciplined units are harder to lose morale. Berserk units can (obviously) go berserk and impetuous units may charge without orders.
    Does this means that impetuous is better than disciplined, or only in restoring morale?

  7. #7

    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    low < normal < disciplined < impetuous < berserker

    As you go towards the right, units gain morale faster and lose it slower. So disciplined is better than normal (which is better than low), but it's worse than impetuous (which is in turn worse than berserk).

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  8. #8
    Finder of Little Oddities Senior Member Makanyane's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan
    Other than horse units are seriously underpowered in auto-calc and that heavy mounted missiles are terribly overpowered, nothing conclusive... A nice opportunity to do some testing though. :)

    Did you figure out the can_sap/stat_ground problem? I've had no luck pinning it down.
    hmmm, I seem to be acquiring lots of opportunities to test things

    The dissappearing description thing I didn't get any further than finding those examples of working non/working combos, couldn't figure out any particular conclusion, just fiddling the attribute or stat when it occurs!


    Didn't spot you mentioning anywhere the "general_unit_upgrade"
    attribute, I assume that's tied to the
    upgrade_bodyguard 1
    in EDB, EDB guide lists that as operating after Marian reforms. Does anyone know if you have that in EDB and reforms operating, do you need a general_unit_upgrade for all the factions?
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  9. #9
    EB Traitor Member BozosLiveHere's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    AFAIK, general_unit_upgrade makes the game switch bodyguards to the unit with this attribute when the marian reforms hit. The upgrade_bodyguard thing in EDB has no effect in RTW 1.2+.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Makanyane
    I was wondering if anyone has managed to come up with any conclusive information about how unit sizes and stats affect auto-calc (other than just auto-calc sucks!) - is there anything you can do within EDU to help an AI faction with smaller unit sizes?
    With regular cavalry units you can use the second value on the stat_health line to improve auto-calc performance. It has no effect on performance in a normal battle, it might have some effect on AI recruiting preference (it looked that way to me but I didn't test it rigorously), but it definitely has an effect on auto-calc. I have used this to improve the performance of horse archer factions in XGM with great success.

  11. #11
    Axebitten Modder Senior Member Dol Guldur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    That's very interesting, Dime. Thank you. Something for Aradan to check out and update ;)
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  12. #12
    Notepad user Member Red Spot's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Complete EDU Guide - Discussion

    you may also have noticed that even though they dont use it, vanilla does set secondary armour stats for cavalry as well ...

    Code:
    stat_sec_armour  0, 1, flesh
    Though I dont know if it may influence anything, I just use it everywhere or nowhere at all ...


    G

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