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Thread: Longbows -vs- Mongols

  1. #1
    Heavy Metal Warlord Member Von Nanega's Avatar
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    Default Longbows -vs- Mongols

    My game is a English migration to the Holy lands has been war from the start. BUT,,, my armies, with six longbows type units with some spearmen and armoured swordsmen and a couple of Templar Knights has been destroying one Mongol army but getting wrecked in the process. It really sucks having to retrain after every major battle. These are open field battles. I would like some advice on how to reorganize using the English to get better kill ratios.
    Last edited by Von Nanega; 07-19-2007 at 17:23.
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  2. #2
    Slaying Pagans near you! Member TeutonicKnight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    I don't think it's possible without some sort of defensive land, be it a bridge, or a large hill, to defeat the Mongols without suffering heavy casualties. The only way I've ever won significantly was inside castles and towns, or bridges. They are just too mobile and powerful in the open field, imho. You don't have the spearmen to really stand up to them.

    I'll give a few ideas. I'm assuming you are using stakes. Have you tried making a box fort with archers and stakes, and then pulling the archers to the middle and putting spears and infantry on the stake walls? That might help some since it will keep them from charging, and if they do they will be slaughtered.

    Also, a culverin or maybe a mortar might help you peg the general leading them. They do tend to lose their will to fight if you can pop him.

    As the English, the Mongols usually are very hard for me to beat otherwise. Then you get the Timurids. They just make me cry.

  3. #3
    Filthy Rich Member Odin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by TeutonicKnight
    I don't think it's possible without some sort of defensive land, be it a bridge, or a large hill, to defeat the Mongols without suffering heavy casualties.
    I agree with TuetonicKnight, particularly with archer heavy England. Your going to take casualties in an open field battle with them.

    My greatest successes (in terms of low casualties) has been bridge battles. That would be ideal for you with those long bows, you could also break them on your city/castle walls using spears to plug holes or the gate and let the archers widdle them down.

    However you could use a political solution. Have the mongols settled a city yet? If so ask for a crusade, then you can have other armies soften them up. In addition to that you can enlist in it and get access to cheap quality units.

    Gamey? Maybe a touch but its the holy land and it isnt absolutely out of the question for papal assistance.
    There are few things more annoying than some idiot who has never done anything trying to say definitively how something should be done.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    I'd have at least 10 longbowmen to the army. Just get them to attack you somehow and watch their cavalry impale themselves on those stakes.

  5. #5
    Corrupter of Souls Member John_Longarrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    Or switch to Milan and allow the Mongols to die on the tips of your crossbows...

    The biggest problem England has that I've see is an inability to absorb the missile fire. I generally stick something easily replaceable out in front of the archers (peasants anyone?) to absorb missile fire. Once the meat shields go down, fall back and keep your real troops protected.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    By the time Mongols come money should not be a problem. So use mercenaries to absorb missile fire, just hire a ton of them and have them sit in your castles to replace the losses you take in battles.

  7. #7
    Friendly Resident Knight Member Fußball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    Field battles are the best to hit the mongols early if you know how to do it. Once they siege a settlement they will continue to siege it every turn until they take it, not giving you time to retrain or strengthen the garrison. Whereas if you attack a mongol army in the field, you can devastate said army and fall back to retrain if need be. And if the mongol stacks have any artillery you would be best to have many soldiers garrisoning said settlement because everyone knows what the AI does when it has artillery. Knocks down every imaginable piece of wall and then when the ammo or most of the wall is gone, then they waltz in.

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  8. #8
    Prince Louis of France (KotF) Member Ramses II CP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    Bring more longbowmen. :)

    Try a stack with one decent general and the rest retinue longbows. They'll attack you, they always do if you've got superior ranged units (Unless reinforcements get passive AI'd). You'll still take casualties, but you have enough stakes to keep his cavalry from charging in to melee, you have enough strength in swords to beat back his infantry as they fight scattered out at the stake line, and you have overwhelming superiority of ranged fire.

    It's fun to watch the main punch of the Mongol force prance and dance outside my stake fort while their army routs around them.

  9. #9
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=88887

    More info on repelling the Mongols

    (blatant self-promotion, please disregard)
    #Winstontoostrong
    #Montytoostronger

  10. #10
    Heavy Metal Warlord Member Von Nanega's Avatar
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    Default Re: Longbows -vs- Mongols

    I upped the longbows to 8, spears to 4, general 1, hospitallar knights 7. Works better but still a meat grinder.
    The Holy Land is the most fun I have ever had playing the English. Again, I migrated lock stock and eel pie from England. My goal is to recapture it from the Scots in the future. (I gifted all of my English holdings to them for the nonce.)
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