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Thread: Great General(s)

  1. #1

    Default Great General(s)

    Any thoughts on the great generals of the Middle Ages? Let's start with the 15th century...(Henry V, Sulieman the Great, Vlad III of Wallachia, Ivan III, Casmir IV, etc...)

    I vote for Henry V (of course, that's partially because of the bias of my historical training...having a strong interest in medieval Britain).


  2. #2
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Well, for 15th century specifically, I'll go with Timurlane. I'm surprised you didn't even have him on the list.

    As for the rest of the medieval period, I'd like to nominate Subudai Bahadur, Jebe Noyan, and Chinggis Khaan.

    Of course, I have a slight preference toward Mongol generals.
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    One easily trifled with Member Target Champion Motep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Richard the Lionhearted

    did a decent job on his crusade
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Ulrich von Jungingen.


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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    I'd probably agree Chinggis Khaan is one of the greats for the whole period.

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    A Member Member Conradus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Let's not forget Bertrand du Guesclin and Saladin or Subotai and Belisarius.

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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    If we include the dark ages to the middle ages, then Khalid ibn al-Walid is propably one of the greatest generals of the time. His campaign against the Apostates and the ones against the Sassanids and the Byzantines are truly impressive. Here's more information about his campaigns if you are interested. http://www.swordofallah.com/html/bookhome.htm
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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Define great general. Is this based on strategical, charismatic and tactical skills?

    "Half of your brain is that of a ten year old and the other half is that of a ten year old that chainsmokes and drinks his liver dead!" --Hagop Beegan

  9. #9

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishArmenian
    Define great general. Is this based on strategical, charismatic and tactical skills?
    Isn't a combination of the three required for a truly great general?
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    Imperialist Brit Member Orb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    11th Century, the one I know about, Robert Guiscard and Roger of Sicily are my favourites (and in my opinion possibly the greatest of their day).
    Going later, Henry V of England r0xx0rz. Primarily because he beat France.


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    Professional Cynic Member Innocentius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Orb
    Primarily because he beat France.
    And that makes him particularly great because...?

    On a general scale, I'd put Edward I as one of the finest generals during the Middle Ages. Perhaps not a brilliant battlefield commander (which most people seem to consider the most important thing when judging a general/military leader) but a true Machiavellan lord.
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    A Member Member Conradus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Innocentius
    And that makes him particularly great because...?
    Orb's British?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by AggonyDuck
    Isn't a combination of the three required for a truly great general?
    That was what I was going to say... C. All of the above...I think.

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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by King Jan III Sobieski
    That was what I was going to say... C. All of the above...I think.


    yup,you need to have them 3 to be a great genearal.

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    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Saladin has always been a favorite for me. You've gotta a respect a guy who managed to finally unite the Arabs and Turks of Egypt & the Levant into a single political entity, drive the Crusaders out of Jerusalem, *and* be known & respected throughout the world -- including during his own lifetime -- as a man of chivalry and honor. He was both a fine tactician as well as a great leader.
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    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by King Jan III Sobieski
    Any thoughts on the great generals of the Middle Ages? Let's start with the 15th century...(Henry V, Sulieman the Great, Vlad III of Wallachia, Ivan III, Casmir IV, etc...)

    I vote for Henry V (of course, that's partially because of the bias of my historical training...having a strong interest in medieval Britain).

    Ehem... Quite many of your examples are from different centuries... But what really wonders me is why Casimir IV is there ?

    If it is the same Casimir IV of Poland-Lithuania I am thinking about he was rather lousy commander, ar rather didn't fight at all and left that work to other people.

    Sure his reign marked the end of feudal army in Poland (was professional after that), but the only reason seem his defeat at Chojnice and inability to convince anyone to fight without paying them.

    Actually for Poland I wouldn't dare to find a single really good commander from that time - simply too few battles were fought and those were usually works of different people - noone responsible for more than one victory.




    As for some my proposals. Janos Hunyadi, Skandenberg, Michael the Great for sure.

    The rest is already mentoned by other people.



    Husar


    Ulrich von Jungingen.
    ???? Any reason for that ?

    Sure he was wearing a cool white uniform with black crosses here and there, but his military achivements are most likely limited to one campaign in 1410 where he failed utterly - was killed and almost brought the end of the Teutonic Order which never recovered anyway from that loss.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach
    Ehem... Quite many of your examples are from different centuries... But what really wonders me is why Casimir IV is there ?

    If it is the same Casimir IV of Poland-Lithuania I am thinking about he was rather lousy commander, ar rather didn't fight at all and left that work to other people.

    Sure his reign marked the end of feudal army in Poland (was professional after that), but the only reason seem his defeat at Chojnice and inability to convince anyone to fight without paying them.

    Actually for Poland I wouldn't dare to find a single really good commander from that time - simply too few battles were fought and those were usually works of different people - noone responsible for more than one victory.

    I just randomly threw him in there as an example. Of course, let us not forget that a subsequent century brought about (the last) great Polish commander...my namesake.


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    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by cegorach
    Ehem... Quite many of your examples are from different centuries... But what really wonders me is why Casimir IV is there ?

    If it is the same Casimir IV of Poland-Lithuania I am thinking about he was rather lousy commander, ar rather didn't fight at all and left that work to other people.

    Sure his reign marked the end of feudal army in Poland (was professional after that), but the only reason seem his defeat at Chojnice and inability to convince anyone to fight without paying them.

    Actually for Poland I wouldn't dare to find a single really good commander from that time - simply too few battles were fought and those were usually works of different people - noone responsible for more than one victory.




    As for some my proposals. Janos Hunyadi, Skandenberg, Michael the Great for sure.

    The rest is already mentoned by other people.





    ???? Any reason for that ?

    Sure he was wearing a cool white uniform with black crosses here and there, but his military achivements are most likely limited to one campaign in 1410 where he failed utterly - was killed and almost brought the end of the Teutonic Order which never recovered anyway from that loss.

    Really? Alot of them were from the 15 centruy unless I'm wrong.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    [QUOTE=cegorach]As for some my proposals. Janos Hunyadi, Skandenberg, Michael the Great for sure.

    The rest is already mentoned by other people.
    [QUOTE]

    Speaking of Janos Hunyadi, what about one of his contemporaries - Prince Vlad III of Wallachia?


  20. #20
    Imperialist Brit Member Orb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Martok
    Saladin has always been a favorite for me. You've gotta a respect a guy who managed to finally unite the Arabs and Turks of Egypt & the Levant into a single political entity, drive the Crusaders out of Jerusalem, *and* be known & respected throughout the world -- including during his own lifetime -- as a man of chivalry and honor. He was both a fine tactician as well as a great leader.
    I don't agree with you. Among other things, Saladin established himself by brutally oppressing Shi'ism in Egypt and initiating the process of the invasion and Arabisation of the Sudanese Christian kingdoms, with provocation that could at best be called limited.

    He also executed prisoners without a second thought and only allowed the remaining occupants of Jerusalem out if they could afford a ransom (otherwise they were enslaved).

    The chivalry that is often suggested to be one of his characteristics is generally overplayed. He was, and acted as, a medieval warlord, not a knight in shining armour.


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  21. #21

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Edward IV. Thirty-eight pitched battles all victories. That is far more than William I, Richard I, Edward III, Henry V or any other English king. His lifestyle of habitual debauchery and indulgence in alcohol was also exemplary.
    Last edited by Furious Mental; 08-11-2007 at 08:18.

  22. #22
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Orb
    I don't agree with you. Among other things, Saladin established himself by brutally oppressing Shi'ism in Egypt and initiating the process of the invasion and Arabisation of the Sudanese Christian kingdoms, with provocation that could at best be called limited.

    He also executed prisoners without a second thought and only allowed the remaining occupants of Jerusalem out if they could afford a ransom (otherwise they were enslaved).

    The chivalry that is often suggested to be one of his characteristics is generally overplayed. He was, and acted as, a medieval warlord, not a knight in shining armour.
    but you mustn't look at it that way, the christians though he was going to murder their families and skullrape them... so when he didnt... he was all of the sudden a whole lot nicer... and since he left people out who could afford the ransom, the rich people, and who wrote history? rich people... so for them he was a nice man... because who cares about the pawns when the king yet reigns... what happens to the lowely life peasant is not a big deal for history... and i think he was known to be benevolent towards nobles...

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  23. #23

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Well, actually it was mostly clerics who wrote history, not the landed nobility or knightly military class. There was obviously shared membership and coincidence of interests between them, but nevertheless it isn't difficult to find totally different perspectives on history, obvious examples being the anti-war material produced by French clerics, jurists, and philosophers in the Hundred Years War.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Charlemagne's conquests are impressive. Though I'm not sure of his tactics.

    El Cid's tactics and achievement's are impressive.

    Richard the Lionheart's tactics and strategies are brilliant yet his achievements are not.

    If Belisarius can be included then certainly Justinian the Great?

  25. #25
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Furious Mental
    Well, actually it was mostly clerics who wrote history, not the landed nobility or knightly military class. There was obviously shared membership and coincidence of interests between them, but nevertheless it isn't difficult to find totally different perspectives on history, obvious examples being the anti-war material produced by French clerics, jurists, and philosophers in the Hundred Years War.
    you are right, my bad.

    We do not sow.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Adolf IV Von Schauenburg

  27. #27

    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Grace
    Charlemagne's conquests are impressive. Though I'm not sure of his tactics.

    El Cid's tactics and achievement's are impressive.

    Richard the Lionheart's tactics and strategies are brilliant yet his achievements are not.

    If Belisarius can be included then certainly Justinian the Great?

    How about Constantine the Great? OK...way off of the Middle Ages, I know... just thought I'd through that in there.

    Any opinions on the great generals of Greece and Rome?...or the ancient world in general?

  28. #28
    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Great General(s)

    Batu - Grandson of Genghis Khan.
    Boleslaw Chrobry - first king of Poland, captured Bohemia, Slovakia, half of today East Germany and Kiev.
    Boleslav Krzywousty - polish prince from XII century - won with HRE, captured Pomorze (todays its North-West part of Poland).
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

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