Building ships on the caspian?

**Swordmaster** · 07-24-2007, 10:18

Methinks, gameplay-wise, it would be nice if at least one of those provinces were able to build basic war vessels, even if that's historically incorrect.

**Foot** · 07-24-2007, 10:29

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

Methinks, gameplay-wise, it would be nice if at least one of those provinces were able to build basic war vessels, even if that's historically incorrect.

Not going to happen. Firstly, if only one port could build war vessels, why the hell would you? There would be no-one to fight except pirates, big fat waste of money. Secondly, we don't add things with no basis in historical fact, regardless of a so-called improvement in gameplay.

Foot

**Zaknafien** · 07-24-2007, 12:15

Word. My man Foot laying the smack-down.

**Swordmaster** · 07-24-2007, 12:59

Point taken, but there is no-one to fight anywhere anyway, except perhaps a solitary Ptolemaic fleet. Investing in war fleets for purposes other than fighting pirates looks like a waste of money, too. (Except perhaps if you're playing with BI).

**Barbarossa82** · 07-24-2007, 20:18

Originally Posted by Foot

Not going to happen. Firstly, if only one port could build war vessels, why the hell would you? There would be no-one to fight except pirates, big fat waste of money. Secondly, we don't add things with no basis in historical fact, regardless of a so-called improvement in gameplay.

Foot

Right, but in this case allowing military shipbuilding would be a rational response to an inadvertent, small inaccuracy within EB: the presence of powerful pirate fleets in the Caspian. Surely it makes sense to say that if there had been a problem with pirates interfering with marine trade in the Caspian during EB's timeframe, then nations bordering the sea would likely have responded by constructing their own ships to patrol the routes, or at lease developed the option to do so. It must make some kind of economic sense to tackle piracy, both in game terms and in real life, since they disrupt and plunder valuable trade.

I don't see that allowing some kind of shipbuilding on the Caspian has "no basis" in historical fact - there's been some kind of shipping on the Caspian since ancient days, so I would have thought it would have been feasible to construct shallow-draft patrol boats carrying a few marines with boarding equipment. I'm no expert on ancient seafaring, or on the Caspian, but where you can build and sail cargo vessels then surely you can build and sail some kind of military craft based on the same hull, even if it bares little resemblance to the galleys of the mediterranean.

If the game allows pirates to sail the Caspian in proper military vessels, then oughtn't it to allow for that to be counterbalanced in a manner that's plausible, if not archaeologically attested? Otherwise the neighbouring factions are at a disadvantage, prevented from building ships because they wouldn't have done so had the pirates not been there; when in EB the pirates are there.

Sorry for the longwindedness.

**Foot** · 07-24-2007, 23:33

Point well made Barbarossa, except for several small but important facts. Firstly, and most importantly, we don't want pirates on the caspian, but we cannot stop them from spawning there. When we did it stopped all trade between ports, which is something we don't want to do. Secondly, afaik, there weren't enough trees in the nearby vicinity to support large fleets. Thirdly, you may well talk about small shallow-draft patrol boats, but seeing as our representation of ships in the game is of large fleets of 40-60 ships, our system doesn't have space to deal with military vessels on such a small level.

To repeat, if we could get rid of the pirates in the caspian we would. We can't, but please just ignore them as much as possible.

Foot

**Xehh II** · 07-24-2007, 23:54

How can you ignore them if they're blockading your ports?

**Tellos Athenaios** · 07-24-2007, 23:55

*If you can't*, however, you may want to search the net or forums for some cheat which allows you to teleport your characters to any given location - provided that the type of character can exist there (i.e. admirals on dry land is a bit tricky).
You can find the location you want by pointing your cursor at it; entering the RomeShell (press [~]) and typing:

show_cursorstat

**Barbarossa82** · 07-24-2007, 23:57

Originally Posted by Foot

Point well made Barbarossa, except for several small but important facts. Firstly, and most importantly, we don't want pirates on the caspian, but we cannot stop them from spawning there. When we did it stopped all trade between ports, which is something we don't want to do. Secondly, afaik, there weren't enough trees in the nearby vicinity to support large fleets. Thirdly, you may well talk about small shallow-draft patrol boats, but seeing as our representation of ships in the game is of large fleets of 40-60 ships, our system doesn't have space to deal with military vessels on such a small level.

To repeat, if we could get rid of the pirates in the caspian we would. We can't, but please just ignore them as much as possible.

Foot

Point taken. It's a shame that there aren't enough unit slots to have some kind of patrol boat to counter the pirates, but given the limitations I certainly wouldn't want to sacrifice one of the existing units to accomodate it.

**Centurio Nixalsverdrus** · 07-24-2007, 23:58

1. Foot, you said it's a "big fat waste of money" to build a naval ports and a fleet just to hunt down the pirates. I say, at first it's an even bigger waste of money to upgrade your trading harbours there only to have them blocked by the pirates, and secondly building fleets outside in the mediterranean / ocean is just for the same reason only except you're playing with BI, besides of shipping around troops of course.

2. You said "there weren't enough trees in the nearby vicinity to support large fleets". Well, please take a look at the province of Hyrkania, and what you will most likely notice is the sheer abundance of trees there, just in the direct vicinity of the Caspian Sea. So either you aren't right about the trees or the map.

3. You said "our system doesn't have space to deal with military vessels on such a small level", talking of shallow-draft patrol boats. I think that the smallest size of boats, I think Pentecontarai, would be perfect to represent those shallow-draft patrol boats. They aren't big, they aren't expensive, and they are buildable with the smallest size of naval port.

I think Zadrakata, Hyrkania is a perfect place to allow for the construction of those little ships. Otherwise, the Caspian Sea is a little bit "Dead Sea", almost useless for the player, only a big hole in the map.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 07-25-2007, 00:10

1) You can't just use any kind of tree to build a ship. Only few types of tree allow for lightweight yet strong constructions wich also were waterproof - and the wood needed to have 'aged': if it hadn't water could get into the timber itself.
2) I find most pirates to do nothing but run a shipping business between Prhaaspa and Zadrakata. They don't block my ports. They just... sail.

And not because my Seleukid kingdom has been kind to the independents in the past or some such thing.