Building ships on the caspian?

**Starforge** · 07-25-2007, 04:09

If there are pirate warships on the Caspian then someone built the things unless they were portaged from the Med

Unfortunately, unless you can restrict where the AI plops the pirate ships, adding a few non-historical shipyards should go very well with the non-historical pirate scourge.

**Thaatu** · 07-25-2007, 06:03

Pirates are a pain in VH (because of autoresolve), but just recently in my Aedui campaign, which is H/M, I built one unit of some large ships that I can't name. They were, I believe, the best naval unit the Celts get with recruitment cost 10,000 and upkeep some 3,000 mnai. That one fleet with 50 ships (men) attacked a pirate fleet with 20 units, two of which were "Great pirate fleets", 1050 ships altogether. Heroic victory. My fleet lost about 20 ships, sinking almost 400. See, the secret in dealing with pirates is that their ships are like canoos. A real military fleet can handle any sized pirate horde.

**Bootsiuv** · 07-25-2007, 06:35

Originally Posted by Thaatu

Pirates are a pain in VH (because of autoresolve), but just recently in my Aedui campaign, which is H/M, I built one unit of some large ships that I can't name. They were, I believe, the best naval unit the Celts get with recruitment cost 10,000 and upkeep some 3,000 mnai. That one fleet with 50 ships (men) attacked a pirate fleet with 20 units, two of which were "Great pirate fleets", 1050 ships altogether. Heroic victory. My fleet lost about 20 ships, sinking almost 400. See, the secret in dealing with pirates is that their ships are like canoos. A real military fleet can handle any sized pirate horde.

I actually was going to mention that....they do seem to die fairly easily. My 27 ship Penteconter fleet defeated a fleet of over 200 pirate ships.

The only problem is that sometimes they don't win.

I'm playing KH, and have a small greek empire going. I control Sparte, Korinthos, Athenia, Thermon, Demetrias, Pella, Chalcydis, and Kydonia. After pushing Makedonia off of the mainland (they control Bithynia and Lesbos), I decided to try for a re-attempt of the athenian invasion of Sikilia, hoping to bring Syrakousia into the Koinon. My fleet of 53 Penteconters was forced to fight three battles in the south Adriatic, and the entire fleet was lost on the fourth battle in one turn (along with my entire 20 unit stack, which included a young general who was just married into the family).

After that debacle, I tried for an invasion of Kyrenaica, and met with more success, but I still had to wade through over 400 pirate ships to reach the North Africa coast....I was just fortunate to have won all of the battle that turn. It's just a little much is all.

That, however, I could probably deal with. I really can't help but disagree with the developers insistence on not allowing even Lemboi fleets in the Caspian Sea. Perhaps someone knowledgeable could create a mini-mod to alleviate this for those who would like the option, even if it will be rarely used.

**geala** · 07-25-2007, 12:55

First I was also annoyed about the pirates, especially one time when they sunk my Lemboi fleet with my newly recruited invincible full stack super elite army on board.

On the other hand seafaring in the ancient world was dangerous and great losses occured frequently. So I take the pirates as the avatars of the danger of the sea itself (cause there are no storms etc. in EB).

And imagine the feeling you get when later your triere fleets wipe the pirates from the sea.

Before that time you have to be careful and suffer a bit.

If you cannot afford to loose a fight, use the console (^ button on my board) and type "auto_win defender".

I like very much the posted idea that a small fleet or single ships could be recruited in mercantile ports. That would be great for reconnaissance and patroling alike. Perhaps also naval mercenary ships are possible which could be recruited in sea provinces?

**Foot** · 07-25-2007, 13:03

Originally Posted by geala

I like very much the posted idea that a small fleet or single ships could be recruited in mercantile ports. That would be great for reconnaissance and patroling alike. Perhaps also naval mercenary ships are possible which could be recruited in sea provinces?

We can do merc ships in EB2, but not in RTW. Don't know if we will have merc ships of course.

Foot

**Starforge** · 07-25-2007, 13:15

Originally Posted by Thaatu

Pirates are a pain in VH (because of autoresolve), but just recently in my Aedui campaign, which is H/M, I built one unit of some large ships that I can't name. They were, I believe, the best naval unit the Celts get with recruitment cost 10,000 and upkeep some 3,000 mnai. That one fleet with 50 ships (men) attacked a pirate fleet with 20 units, two of which were "Great pirate fleets", 1050 ships altogether. Heroic victory. My fleet lost about 20 ships, sinking almost 400. See, the secret in dealing with pirates is that their ships are like canoos. A real military fleet can handle any sized pirate horde.

I've never personally tried that method. I'm all about access to repair shops to save experience so my usual anti-pirate fleet (and this works quite well for my Roman empire) is 5 of the second cheapest warship you can buy. This will take a great pirate fleet with minimal losses and once you have some experience, pretty much no losses (and easy to replace if you do).

I can see smaller countries with larger borders to cover having a harder time with this though.

**KARTLOS** · 07-25-2007, 14:15

i can understand ed's reasons for not allowing ship production on the caspian. ive modded the game to allow it though. partially i was annoyed about the pirates, and partially because my empire encompasses the caspian and i would like to be able to transport units accross it. though it was not a technique used in this time period i dont think it is beyond the realms of possibility that an inspired ruler would build a transport fleelt there. 1000yrs later the vikings did go raiding in iran and armenia via the caspian.

**Zaknafien** · 07-25-2007, 14:39

its not a matter of if they would have wanted to, its a matter of the right kinds of materials availbile in sufficient numbers to create a fleet.

**KARTLOS** · 07-25-2007, 15:38

Originally Posted by Zaknafien

its not a matter of if they would have wanted to, its a matter of the right kinds of materials availbile in sufficient numbers to create a fleet.

Originally Posted by russia almighty

I got to admit though I do like Neitos . Nothing more satisfying than disciplined "barbarians" cutting down "civilized" people .

if a large empire had the desire the would have been more than capable.

**Tristuskhan** · 07-25-2007, 16:52

Originally Posted by Zaknafien

its not a matter of if they would have wanted to, its a matter of the right kinds of materials availbile in sufficient numbers to create a fleet.

Caucasus and northern Persia still have densely forested areas, enough to provide building materials for a navy in the Caspian, as far as I know.

**Foot** · 07-25-2007, 17:05

Look, if you guys can supply evidence that military vessels were constructed in the caspian, or can offer good arguments backed with evidence that ship-building on such a scale then we'll reconsider, but this idle chatter is not going to change our minds concerning the caspian. We would love to get rid of the pirates, but we cannot unless we also stop all trade in that region. Seeing as pirate fleets, and the ai in general, never hold a blockade for more than a turn or two we feel you guys can ignore them. Either that or you can change pirate spawning to almost nothing.

Foot