Agrianian Assault Infantry

[geala]

One of my favourite troops are the Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi. One reason is that they seem very exotic to me, never heard of before, although I know about the Agrianian javelin throwers of Alexander III.

Now I am considering about reenacting such a warrior. Can you give me some information about your sources? Does pictural evidence exist? Esp. the "pectorale", axe, the daggers, the spiked boots and the leather greaves were of interest.

I would be very pleased if you could help me.

[geala]

Are they a little bit of a fantasy unit then? I cannot believe in the case of EB.

[Krusader]

Are they a little bit of a fantasy unit then? I cannot believe in the case of EB.

We based it on a few units from Fourth Age: TW.



I'll ask around, maybe they will answer.

[The Stranger]

Agrainians were just another tribe werent they... they could have delivered those types of assault units.. they may have not... but the delivered units i think...

[paullus]

Well, the Agrianikoi were a unit that required a fair bit of reconstruction, all of which took place long before I got involved with EB, but here's some info for you.

First off, the "Agrianes" were very likely NOT a real tribe. They were given this appellation, which means "mountain people," by the Makedonians, whom they served as mercenaries. They were renowned for the skill with javelins, but their heavier weapons (the axe and pectoral) come from archaeological finds, inferences based on the actions in which some of the Agrianes participated in Alexander's campaigns, assaulting the Kilikian gates with the Hypaspistai, storming mountain fortifications in the Hindu Kush and along the Indus.

Anyway, the Agrianes were pushed down into Makedonia by the arrival of the Galatai a few years before the start of the game. They probably never existed in particularly large numbers, and almost certainly didn't really exist as a tribe until after they transplanted into Makedonia as refugees. However, they found that the moniker "Agrianes" was good for them, and many received nice kleroi in Egypt and Syria, as well as land and a respected position in the Makedonian royal military.

[geala]

Thank you. So the use of the axe and pectorale seems possible already at the time of Alexander. This is nice. The climbing daggers and the spiked boots I will take with a certain reservation (I'm sure they climbed the steep slopes barefoot which is the best next to the modern adhesion shoes ). Was it no also at the hillfort of Roxanes tribe where they were used?

Btw what I don't like so much is the grey colour of the chiton of the Agrianians. At first view I always imagine it as a mail shirt.

[keravnos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriani

They were light alright, but according to this, they didn't even carry a shield. That seems to be an exaggeration, but also carry some truth. Not much place for a shield when you are rock climbing is there?

The other assault they took part into were the assault at "Aornos" petra.

and of course...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sogdian_Rock

Guess you know who were the...

When Alexander asked the defenders to surrender, they refused, telling him that he would need "men with wings" to capture it.

Alexander asked for volunteers, whom he would reward if they could climb the cliffs under the fortress. There were some 300 men who from previous sieges had gained experience in rock-climbing. Using tent-pegs and strong flaxen lines, they climbed the cliff face at night, losing about 30 of their number during the ascent. In accordance with Alexander's orders, they signalled their success to the troops below by waving bits of linen, and Alexander sent a herald to shout the news to the enemy's advanced posts that they might now surrender without further delay. The defenders were so surprised and demoralised by this that they surrendered.

Alexander fell in love with Roxana on sight and eventually married her.

The story of the siege is told by the Roman historian Arrian of Nicomedia, in Anabasis (section 4.18.4-19.6).

[geala]

I think a shield is quite probable. Maybe they used a kind of round pelte of ca. 60 cm diameter. You can sling it over your back easily and therefore climb more or less unimpeded. That would be a lot more difficult with the thureos bur perhaps also possible. The pectorale would also not have been a great hindrance, same for an open helmet. Please make them in EB2 with a pelte, pilos helmet, pectorale, javelins, axe and rope, barefoot, with leather greaves and an offwhite chiton (and the ability to climb walls and trees like insects and celebrating a deadly jump attack from above. ).

[keravnos]

"Death from above" in sieges? Hmm, that would be a bit farfetched. Imagine all the defenders hurling anything at you (urine and feces included) and other, more pointy stuff, as you climb a man made wall approx 10 meters tall?

Not much of a success rate for those guys, is it?

[Cybvep]

If they are something like "commando squad" or "special forces" used for very, very specified tasks, which is totally impossible to represent on the extremely limited RTW engine, why they are even in?

[keravnos]

They fought along the hypaspistai (elite hoplite inf) in Gaugamela. There they were 1000. Alexandros considered them among his best and most trusted troops. Their land was pretty much next door to Makedonia and Epeiros. So, how could we NOT have included them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriani

Alexander made heavy use of them: indeed, every time he dispatched a flying column the Agrianians were always included. They were supplied by the client king Langarus. They were expert fighters in mountainous terrain where the phalanx was impracticable

[Geoffrey S]

Their commando use is what they were famous for, but that by no means indicates they didn't have a significant (numerical) presence on the battlefield, unlike say the Arcani in RTW.

[Cybvep]

Make sense, then. Thx for the answer.

[geala]

You should take my demand for a climbing and dead-jump ability not too seriously.
But, perhaps instead a lasso ablility would be nice? Throwing their ropes and pulling down defenders from the walls? Ok, I'll restrain my fantasy in the future...

Btw, to say something at least partly resonable: I took away the "prec" feature from the Agrianians and gave them 5 javelins because I like them also as skirmishers.

[paullus]

I actually would love it if we could give them the ability to scale walls...especially if it came with a graphic of them throwing ropes or something. That's what they did, so if we could have it that way, that's what we'd do. And in M2TW, you might could even have them scale a rock face and then scale the wall from an unexpected direction, which was how those sorts of operations usually went.

[keravnos]

Imagine, being able to assault from one side, then sneak in those Agrianians from the opposite side of the enemy town. Once in, they open the gates for your cavalry to enter the city square, causing your enemies to turn their backs and run to the city center...

Yeah, I would LOVE to see that. And impassable terrain that only they could climb onto and out of.

[Rundownloser]

I actually would love it if we could give them the ability to scale walls...especially if it came with a graphic of them throwing ropes or something. That's what they did, so if we could have it that way, that's what we'd do. And in M2TW, you might could even have them scale a rock face and then scale the wall from an unexpected direction, which was how those sorts of operations usually went.

That would be so awesome...I just hope they'd be able to resuscitate me.

[Thaatu]

Snap out of it people, never going to happen.

[paullus]

sorry...