Creating a strong ally

[Agent Miles]

In my latest GA game, I chose not to conquer any other faction's provinces, except for rebels, unless the province was a GA goal. Something curious happened that may be worth sharing. I was allied to the Sicilians and managed to marry some of my faction’s sons to their daughters over several generations. I then engineered a rebellion on Sicilian controlled Malta with a spy. My army gallantly lifted the ensuing rebel siege of their fort. After this, or perhaps because of it, the Sicilians were loyal allies. I also took steps to aid the Sicilian Crusade on Tripoli by clearing a path for it through Trebizond. After about 150 turns, they have never attacked me at sea or on land. They always chose my side if one of their other allies attacked me. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned. I am going to try to create one strong ally per campaign, if for no other reason than to have at least one faction as a trading partner when all others are at war with me. Any other tips on what I might do to strengthen an alliance?

[Martok]

Attacking an ally's mutual enemy seems to help as well, although I have no empirical evidence to prove it. Still, in MTW the old axiom seems to apply: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

[doctrellor]

Yeah, I have seen that several times..playing the Byz...

and curiously, when the Scicilians attack Naples, the Papacy attack them and save Naples for me, so when I come in and stomp the French (who usually rampage thru Genoa to get to Rome) .. the Pope loves me..

usually by this time, I own all of North Africa, and my main "economic competitor" is either Spain or England...but I'd have enough of a fleet to stop most of thier fleets

[ULC]

Hmm...I think I'll try the same thing, except with the HRE! I love a challenge, so this would be great!

[Agent Miles]

Good choice. The HRE have lots of GA stuff to do.
Unfortunately for me, the Sicilians got eliminated. When they re-emerged, they attacked me. I guess they got amnesia.

[seireikhaan]

Hmm...I think I'll try the same thing, except with the HRE! I love a challenge, so this would be great!

I wouldn't so much call that a challenge as an impossibility. In my experiences with the HRE, all my allies ditch me in favor of other people before I can even do anything to help them. And getting allied with France, Denmark, Poland, Italians/ Genoese and Venetians, and Hungarians is nigh impossible, even offering a princess wouldn't work. My only allies were people who I didn't share a bordeer with, and once one of their allies who did share a border with me declared war on me, they supported the other guy instead of me. Although, if you can do it, I'll be mightily impressed.

[Agent Miles]

Here's how I did:
I’ve also been playing the HRE (Early/GA/2.01/VI/Expert) with a “quiet opening”. I decided to only go for GA provinces or rebels. I concentrated on developing Friesland, Saxony, Brandenburg, Franconia, Schwabia, Bohemia and Bavaria. I abandoned the other starting provinces to the rebels. This gave me a period of thirty turns or so where my neighbors gobbled up the rebel provinces and ignored me.
I developed Friesland to produce Barques. I also built exactly the structures necessary for the following: Saxony-Royal Knights (RK); Brandenburg-Feudal Men-At-Arms (FMAA); Franconia-Feudal Sergeants (FS) and Schwabia Assassins. Bavaria and Bohemia got maxed farming and mining. I allowed rebels to repeatedly form in these two provinces for some extra income and experience. Soon all the royal family had at least 4 stars.
I took rebel Pomerania before the Polish could get it and built Barques there too. My economy wasn’t booming, but everything kept moving ahead. I built several armies consisting of five each RK’s, FMAA and FS. Each had a 4* general. This came in handy as France broke the alliance and invaded Friesland.
The French retreated immediately and I retook three of my GA provinces from them. I built a Master Horse Breeder in Lorraine and modified my armies to four each FS, FMAA and Mounted Crossbowmen with three RK’s and a Prince. I invaded and plundered Isle De France and a couple other provinces, then left them to the rebels. The French had enough and eventually rejoined my alliance.
France fit nicely into my alliance with Poland, Italy, Denmark, Spain and the Pope. Trade was improving and I was preparing for the Crusades. In Saxony I had built only those structures necessary to acquire the two double star titles (Admiral of the Fleet and Masters of the Stables, something like that). Along with the title for Governor of Pomerania this gave me one 8* and a 6* general. I had built a charterhouse in Friesland and Pomerania and two Crusade markers in each province. Then Hungary invaded Bavaria and Bohemia.
The Hungarians had some good units, but my generals gave my armies more than enough valour to crush them. I retook my two provinces and also Austria (another GA province). At this point Italy only occupied Switzerland and Milan on the continent. You guessed it. Italy, b-bye.
Europe was fairly safe now. Poland, my ally, had only three provinces. Italy, on Corsica and Sardinia, was neutral. The Pope was my ally and held the rest of Italy. France was weak and at war with Aragon. I decided to assassinate the royal family of Denmark (my ally) until they were gone. The Danes had failed to take Norway and then lost Sweden to the Norsemen. Three successful assassinations later and I invaded. I took all of Scandinavia, along with newly rebel Prussia.
I overwhelmed the Egyptians in short order with three Crusades that took Palestine, Tripoli and Antioch. I allied with the Byz and left them Edessa (it’s only worth one GA point). Instead, I launched a Crusade into rebel Livonia.
Finally, my armies took Tuscany, Rome and Naples in 2 turns to complete the HRE GA. My four star assassin whacked the Pope to end the Excommunication and I took rebel Sicily. France attacked again and their ally the Byz split with me. Now I am at war with France, Egypt and the Pope. My only ally is Poland. The Byz are very large, but the Golden Horde should fix that. It’s 1205 and I have the highest GA score (75).

[Prussian1]

I wouldn't so much call that a challenge as an impossibility. In my experiences with the HRE, all my allies ditch me in favor of other people before I can even do anything to help them.

I have never once as the HRE been able to retain a mutual ally after onset of hostilities - and I'm hardly ever the "agressor." The French send a raiding party into Lorraine and suddenly my allies start peeling away in their favor!

Oh, well. What can you do . . .

[Peasant Phill]

I have never once as the HRE been able to retain a mutual ally after onset of hostilities - and I'm hardly ever the "agressor." The French send a raiding party into Lorraine and suddenly my allies start peeling away in their favor!

Oh, well. What can you do . . .

The bigger you are, the harder it is to maintain alliances. You'll have to learn to live with it. This is doubly true for the HRE.

[Prussian1]

The bigger you are, the harder it is to maintain alliances. You'll have to learn to live with it. This is doubly true for the HRE.

Absolutely! In my last campaign, I was - at one point allied with literally every faction in the game. Within a single turn, I had lost every ally.

I suppose, though that this is the trade-off for not having to worry constantly about having to keep your heirs married in order to maintain a strady flow of sovreign material.

[Martok]

I suppose, though that this is the trade-off for not having to worry constantly about having to keep your heirs married in order to maintain a strady flow of sovreign material.

True, but I doubt whether said "trade-off" is really worth it. While I've not played the HRE that much, I have noticed that when my royal line dies off, the new Emperor often isn't my best general. In fact, he often seems to be some 1-star boob I've never noticed before.

Not that I'm dissing the Germans' ability to elect a new ruler -- it's definitely an advantage over the other factions (except for the Papacy, of course)! I'm just saying I don't think it's enough to truly compensate for the fact that the HRE has an almost impossible time keeping allies, and is usually viewed as the agressor in any war (even when they're not).

[Prussian1]

I'm just saying I don't think it's enough to truly compensate for the fact that the HRE has an almost impossible time keeping allies, and is usually viewed as the agressor in any war (even when they're not).

These are good points. Does the faction you usually play tend to have issues with keeping the heir factories open?

[Martok]

These are good points. Does the faction you usually play tend to have issues with keeping the heir factories open?

Not as a general rule, no. But even the most....robust....family line may still suddenly find itself with an old ruler and no heirs, so it is rather nice that the HRE doesn't have to worry about this particular problem.

[Roark]

Building a Strong Alliance

1. Don't attack them (duh)
2. Increase your ruler's influence
3. Maintain respectable border garrisons - don't open them to temptation.
4. Marry their princesses wherever possible.
5. Ally with factions who are also their allies, but who are unlikely to attack you
6. If you own one of their GA goal provinces, forget about points 1-5 and accept that you are doomed to war.

[Bregil the Bowman]

I think it's a shame there is no way of transferring funds to an ally in MTW. Sometimes it would be worth a few thou to keep another power in the game, particularly if you are trading with them. It would be quite realistic too - the French used to help out the Scots and various English rebels by funding their armies without actually getting their own hands dirty.

[Prussian1]

I would have like to have seen some consequences and benefits to alliances.

One REALLY useful one would be the Mutual Defense clause, in which, if you go to war with someone, you automatically go to war with their allies as well.

Second would be Mutual Support. My ally would be obligated to support my attack with a certain number of troops.

Right now the Alliance page functions kind of like the Friends section of MySpace

[Martok]

I would have like to have seen some consequences and benefits to alliances.

One REALLY useful one would be the Mutual Defense clause, in which, if you go to war with someone, you automatically go to war with their allies as well.

Second would be Mutual Support. My ally would be obligated to support my attack with a certain number of troops.

Yeah, these options would certainly have been nice. Of course, I would've been happy if factions didn't simply break alliances at the very first opportunity! The AI suffers from being unable to see the "big picture", and so it often backstabs you for little or no real gain.

Right now the Alliance page functions kind of like the Friends section of MySpace

Too true.

[Prussian1]

Absolute funniest "ally" moment had to have been when, as the HRE, I owned most of Continental Europe and was allied with the Danes. They had the usual stack of King and Heirs in Denmark. I had about five stacks of troops in Saxony just minding their business, probably being quite content with a plumb billet away from the real front

Anyway, at some point the ale must have been pretty good in Denmark because someone up there said "Hey, you know what we should do??"

So, here come the Danes - my allies - across the border, all five units, against five stacks of the Empire's (probably third or fourth) best.

Denmark was a road apple

So much for alliances . . .

[Martok]

Unfortunately, your story about the Danes is just another tragic example of the AI's inability to think & plan long-term. It is unable to look past the immediate consequences of its actions.

[The Unknown Guy]

I think, for what I´ve seen that there is some sort of inbuilt "gratefulness" code, albeit a crude one. "Monsters" tend to find the world against them. For instance, if you play, say, the Almohads, and wipe out Castile and Aragon in a few turns time, I find that I´m more often than not the target of a papal call for a crusade. It´s not just bloat effect, either, because in a campaign I attacked as sicily first the pope (excommunication) and then Italy, and then promptly I got a crusade called against me.
I suspect likewise that there´s some good/ill will circuit for all factions, but that it wont save you from an assault if it comes to worst, and that it degenerates into ill-will easily