New factions?

[oudysseos]

I disagree. I think that the Belgae would be an excellent choice for a variety of reasons.
A. They were really there and were a significant regional power, at least according to Caesar.
B. They would not be another Celtic faction like the Averni and Aedui, but a half Germanic half Celtic fusion, which could be really interesting and add to the diversity.
C. They can mix up the Sweboz steamroller and make the interplay in Gaul more complex, especially for the Romans or Carthies trying to swallow up the whole thing.
D. Could possibly also get involved in Britain (scripts? I dunno just talkin off the top of me head).

And on the other side of Averni/Aedui I think that there should be at least one more faction in Iberia: either a Celtiberian faction like the Arevaci, an Aquitanian faction like the Vascones that straddles the Pyrenees, or an East coast pre-Celtic Iberian faction like the Edetani that mixes with the Greeks of Emporion. That way there would be a continuum of Celt-related factions running from the SW corner of Spain to the shores of the North Sea, like it really was.

[oudysseos]

????

[Mediolanicus]

Much shitstorm.

That was very constructive...


A Belgae tribe would be great since it would be a buffer for the Sweboz, certainly when they've got a Lugian or a Boii tribe on the other side too. They were an expansive bunch and could be given a stronghold in Britain (or by script). Plus they are indeed a nice mixture of Celtic and Germanic influences.
On the down side. The Belgae were a bunch of very independent tribes, so I don't know if they really deserve a faction as a whole...
It would make Gaul a little bit overcrowded too, but with 10 extra factions trown in I think every part of the map will be a bit crowded. Some faction will be overrun early in the game, so I believe we need a way to make factions reappear to solve that.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, the not-so-centralized-or-tied-to-the-land factions should be able to horde.

Also, that Hella-Celti-Iberian Emporion faction sounds fun. More Hellenic Celts!

[Jolt]

...Why not Atlantis?

[antisocialmunky]

They nuked themselves and their alien overlords well before EB's time frame.

[Ludens]

Well, the not-so-centralized-or-tied-to-the-land factions should be able to horde.

The TW horde ability is not a proper representation of migration. I mean, the Celts could and did migrate, but they didn't do so when Ceasar conquered Gaul. Migrations occurred due to population pressure and/or displacement, not conquest. R:TW's horde ability is triggered by conquest, however. I don't know how it works in M2:TW, though, so perhaps it can be made to work in EB2.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, doesn't conquest in the traditional way where people show up, kill people, and do not leave result in displacement of another population? For example, the unit card for the Ligurians talks about how those people were displaced from the Po valley when the Celts showed up. Caesar didn't move people in. He killed everyone who he didn't like. Also, I don't know about any sources that talk about refugee issues, displacement, or emmigration anyways for Caesar's war in Gaul. But usually in protracted wars, you end up having refugees that move someplace else to get away from the fighting.

Besides, horde doesn't really model the wholesale movement of population, just that the center of power has been taken out and the leaders and their followers are moving somewhere elsewhere to continue the fight.

Wholesale migration on the other hand, works better with something like the Jihad thing. If you replaced Imams with 'lesser nobles,' or something and give them a trait that enables a Jihad whenever the population in a certain city gets too high... However, I'm not too sure about how to mess with the populations afterwards(area where Jihad was launched loses people, area that the Jihad conquers gains people).

[Subotan]

How about only certain factions gaining the ability to horde (E.g. Barbaroi, nomads), and even then only with a 50% chance, and a limit to how many times they can do it?

[General Appo]

Not sure if you can do that.

[lenin96]

What about the Saka, on their faction discription it mentions something about some invaders attacking their old land and then having to move away, I haven't read it for a while though. and what about the Sauromatae, the EB team said they were far from settling.

[Ludens]

Well, doesn't conquest in the traditional way where people show up, kill people, and do not leave result in displacement of another population?

I am not sure what you are saying, but conquest often does not mean that the conquered population is killed or exiled. In general, conquest mostly involves a change in ruling class, and sometimes not even that (for example with Roman protectorates). Caesar made a big dent in Gaul's population, but he didn't leave it a wasteland.

Horde, as it was in BI, definitely models the wholesale displacement of people. It just models it badly. It can't be defeated, individual leaders, because these are generally unable to raise large amounts of troops, and certainly not levies who fight mostly to protect their own homes. Levies'd only want to fight for those leaders if their families were coming with them, i.e. it's a full-blown migration.

[Subotan]

I predict that Stele #8 will be presented on 4:36 P.M. GMT on January 24.




Give or take a week

I'm holding the EB team to that.

[Mediolanicus]

I'm just hoping he's good at predicting.

[Hax]

Congratulations Oudysseos!

Well-deserved, seeing all your work I've seen here!

A. They were really there and were a significant regional power, at least according to Caesar.
B. They would not be another Celtic faction like the Averni and Aedui, but a half Germanic half Celtic fusion, which could be really interesting and add to the diversity.
C. They can mix up the Sweboz steamroller and make the interplay in Gaul more complex, especially for the Romans or Carthies trying to swallow up the whole thing.
D. Could possibly also get involved in Britain (scripts? I dunno just talkin off the top of me head).

Ah yes, I've spoken with k_raso about exactly the same thing. As far as I know, one of the most important tribes of the Belgae were the Menapii, who had a lot of contacts in Britain. I also believe that both the Nervii and Eburones were both Celto-Germanic, which would certainly give them a very, very interesting unit roster, not to mention them halting the Sweboz war machine a bit.

I've written some stuff about them here

[Subotan]

I'm holding the EB team to that.

DAMN IT EB TEAM
Why do you hurt me so?

/jk

[desert]

Read the disclaimer:

Give or take a week.

There's still hope.

[oudysseos]

Thanks Hax, nice of you. I just got going on Friday and haven't really done anything for the team yet.

Obviously now I can't comment on the new factions, nor were any of my previous guesses informed by information that I now possess.

[Hax]

Obviously now I can't comment on the new factions, nor were any of my previous guesses informed by information that I now possess.

Hehe, true this.

[Connacht]

Anyway, every single player of EB is hoping for a super pwning Bartix alien faction which invades Earth on 172 BC (minimum) when a Saka family member with both "Gourmet of Life" and "Dislikes Barbarians" traits enters in Capua and triggers the Oh-My-Spam invasion that spawns a lot of rebel Lugians, Celtiberians and Numidians near Eburonum. If they manage to land in Cyprus and then succesfully conquer Armavir then the Bartix invasion will begin.
But only if in Armavir there is a Latifundiae building and the Lusotannan have been vanquished not after the 201 BC by a Sauromatae family member with a Greek historian in the retinue.

[theoldbelgian]

Anyway, every single player of EB is hoping for a super pwning Bartix alien faction which invades Earth on 172 BC (minimum) when a Saka family member with both "Gourmet of Life" and "Dislikes Barbarians" traits enters in Capua and triggers the Oh-My-Spam invasion that spawns a lot of rebel Lugians, Celtiberians and Numidians near Eburonum. If they manage to land in Cyprus and then succesfully conquer Armavir then the Bartix invasion will begin.
But only if in Armavir there is a Latifundiae building and the Lusotannan have been vanquished not after the 201 BC by a Sauromatae family member with a Greek historian in the retinue.

mmh ah well
at least its easier to get then the augustans

[Mediolanicus]

mmh ah well
at least its easier to get then the augustans

Well, there's a lot of truth in that!

[Subotan]

mmh ah well
at least its easier to get then the augustans

OH SNAP

[eddy_purpus]

Thanks Hax, nice of you. I just got going on Friday and haven't really done anything for the team yet.

Obviously now I can't comment on the new factions, nor were any of my previous guesses informed by information that I now possess.

what is that occultus banner in your sig ?

[oudysseos]

It's a new faction, obscured so you can't tell what it is.

Maybe.

[Hax]

MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

/spam

EDIT: So I won't be flayed alive;

what is that occultus banner in your sig ?

It's also something of the past, when the Saba faction wasn't revealed yet. The most sadistic of EB members decided it would be a good idea to pain the anxious people even further.

[Meneldil]

Actually, Occultus was first used for the Yuezhi I think.

[ziegenpeter]

Actually, Occultus was first used for the Yuezhi I think.

We need a EB-historian (I mean someone with knowledge in EBs history) to research and write an expertise on this!

[BozosLiveHere]

It was either Epeiros or Arverni, maybe both.

[Hax]

I think Epeiros, Arverni, Saba or Saka or Yuezhi,