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Thread: New factions?
I think the current faction roster is fine (as long as you can get the Getai to do something) and would prefer to see emergent factions.
Possibilities for those are:
Yuezhi
Numidia
Persians
Roman rebels (after Marian Reform)
Bosphoran Kingdom
Judean Rebel
Celtic/Germanic migrations
and a whole raft of other factions already mentioned in this thread.
You could possibly demote Pontos to an emerging faction as well.
Possibilities for those are:
Yuezhi
Numidia
Persians
Roman rebels (after Marian Reform)
Bosphoran Kingdom
Judean Rebel
Celtic/Germanic migrations
and a whole raft of other factions already mentioned in this thread.
You could possibly demote Pontos to an emerging faction as well.
Um, Pahlava = Persia, doesn't it? :S
Originally Posted by I Am Herenow:
Um, Pahlava = Persia, doesn't it? :S
Not quite. The Persians were the original rulers of the area, while the Parthians were steppe nomads. They did take over a great deal Persian culture, but they had no real connection with the Empire that ruled there before Alexander the Great. In the second or third century A.D., the Parthians were overthrown by one of their Persian vassal, the Sassinids, who continued to rule in their stead. Apart from the name-change, this does not seem to have made great deal of difference (but I am hardly an expert). Doubtlessly, there would have been Persian uprisings against Seleucid rule, but as far as I know, caught between the Seleucids and the Parthians none of them had a big impact.Um, Pahlava = Persia, doesn't it? :S
Um...right, so you want de facto Sassanids as a possible emerging faction, am I right?
I'd like two:
1) A Helleno-Skythian faction on the north shore of the Black Sea.
I don't mind exactly who or where, so long as it mixes classical (non-phalanx) hoplites, horse archers, missile troops, and light and heavy cavalry from the steppe. I've found these medium-weight fluid armies very enjoyable to play, compared to the straightforward Hellenic heavy pike/lance combo or the repetetive slow attrition of the HA {edit: horse archer} armies. Furthermore, it's one of the more interesting strategic positions on the map -- many directions to expand, many types of enemy to face, and it might even be worth building a navy.
But there's no faction here, so one doesn't get the chance. I've had more fun migrating the Hai/Getai to this area than playing them on their home turf.
2) Syracuse.
Nothing like starting with your toes in the fire... Judging by the Eleutheroi city in EB1, this faction would start with quite a high population and infrastructure and enough economy to run a useful army, plus a good set of walls and (I think) siege technology. If you manage to take Sicily, you've got a base which could stand off Rome and Carthage and eventually go further. Given a ruler with an Alexander streak, Syracuse might change the course of history.
Also Syracuse is a name to conjure with -- e.g. I'd heard of Hannibal's siege of Syracuse long before I knew where the city was. It's a good opportunity to let the player do something amaziing.
Syracuse might die pretty easily as an AI faction, but I'd rather that factions were balanced to be played. {People on this forum seem a little obsessed with AI faction balancing, I think they sometimes miss the point that the game gets played by humans too.}
1) A Helleno-Skythian faction on the north shore of the Black Sea.
I don't mind exactly who or where, so long as it mixes classical (non-phalanx) hoplites, horse archers, missile troops, and light and heavy cavalry from the steppe. I've found these medium-weight fluid armies very enjoyable to play, compared to the straightforward Hellenic heavy pike/lance combo or the repetetive slow attrition of the HA {edit: horse archer} armies. Furthermore, it's one of the more interesting strategic positions on the map -- many directions to expand, many types of enemy to face, and it might even be worth building a navy.
But there's no faction here, so one doesn't get the chance. I've had more fun migrating the Hai/Getai to this area than playing them on their home turf.
2) Syracuse.
Nothing like starting with your toes in the fire... Judging by the Eleutheroi city in EB1, this faction would start with quite a high population and infrastructure and enough economy to run a useful army, plus a good set of walls and (I think) siege technology. If you manage to take Sicily, you've got a base which could stand off Rome and Carthage and eventually go further. Given a ruler with an Alexander streak, Syracuse might change the course of history.
Also Syracuse is a name to conjure with -- e.g. I'd heard of Hannibal's siege of Syracuse long before I knew where the city was. It's a good opportunity to let the player do something amaziing.
Syracuse might die pretty easily as an AI faction, but I'd rather that factions were balanced to be played. {People on this forum seem a little obsessed with AI faction balancing, I think they sometimes miss the point that the game gets played by humans too.}
What does HA mean? Hayasdan? :S
Originally Posted by I Am Herenow:
Um...right, so you want de facto Sassanids as a possible emerging faction, am I right?
Er... No, I don't want the Sassinids as an emerging faction. What makes you think that? For one thing, they didn't emerge until way after EB's time-frame.Um...right, so you want de facto Sassanids as a possible emerging faction, am I right?
Originally Posted by I Am Herenow:
What does HA mean? Hayasdan? :S
Horse archers. BTW, I would like to see a Bosporean Greek or Hellenized Scythian faction as well.What does HA mean? Hayasdan? :S
Originally Posted by I Am Herenow:
What does HA mean? Hayasdan? :S
Horse archer. I'll edit.What does HA mean? Hayasdan? :S
I'm thinking in terms of gameplay, not history. This being a game, and not a flash-animated historical text.
I don't want the Sassanids as an emerging faction. I want the possibility of a Persian faction emerging. These may come from the same area as the Sassanids did, but wouldn't be a Cataphract army as that culture hadn't reached Persis yet.
But that emerging faction list was just a heap of ideas thrown out there.
But that emerging faction list was just a heap of ideas thrown out there.
OK, now I understand! 
Originally Posted by Morte66:
Horse archer. I'll edit.
I'm thinking in terms of gameplay, not history. This being a game, and not a flash-animated historical text.
We think in terms of history, and that describes our gameplay. There of course a lot of Greek cities on the northern shores of the Black Sea, so you never know! They wouldn't have pikes though, they would have a more of a KH army.Horse archer. I'll edit.
I'm thinking in terms of gameplay, not history. This being a game, and not a flash-animated historical text.
Foot
Originally Posted by ravenfeeder:
I don't want the Sassanids as an emerging faction. I want the possibility of a Persian faction emerging. These may come from the same area as the Sassanids did, but wouldn't be a Cataphract army as that culture hadn't reached Persis yet.
But that emerging faction list was just a heap of ideas thrown out there.
We won't be using emerging factions, this was decided long ago. I don't want the Sassanids as an emerging faction. I want the possibility of a Persian faction emerging. These may come from the same area as the Sassanids did, but wouldn't be a Cataphract army as that culture hadn't reached Persis yet.
But that emerging faction list was just a heap of ideas thrown out there.
Foot
Originally Posted by Foot:
We think in terms of history, and that describes our gameplay.
Yep. I sometimes wish you'd think more in terms of "what could have happened" than "what actually happened" in an interactive medium like computer games. But it's your mod, and I enjoy it, so it's no biggie. :)We think in terms of history, and that describes our gameplay.
Originally Posted by :
They wouldn't have pikes though,
That's why I like 'em. I find the successor heavy pike phalanx + heavy cavalry armies a bit "blunt implement", I enjoy the fluid hoplite/missile/cavalry armies more.They wouldn't have pikes though,
Originally Posted by :
they would have a more of a KH army.
But with good cavalry and horse archers! And their neighbours wouldn't be all successor-style armies, they'd have a much wider mix of opponents. And they wouldn't get a license to print money by knocking over 2 Epeirote + 3 Macedonian cities in the first five years.they would have a more of a KH army.
Originally Posted by Morte66:
Yep. I sometimes wish you'd think more in terms of "what could have happened" than "what actually happened" in an interactive medium like computer games. But it's your mod, and I enjoy it, so it's no biggie. :)
Er... we do, we just fly off into bizarre speculation. If we are concerned with what did happen, Hayasdan and all the other factions, who never expanded much, would be very uninteresting to play. We limit ourselves to safe speculation from the historical facts we do have. But "what could have happened" is a very large area of speculation, you don't like ours? fine, but we are not as uncreative as you seem to think. Yep. I sometimes wish you'd think more in terms of "what could have happened" than "what actually happened" in an interactive medium like computer games. But it's your mod, and I enjoy it, so it's no biggie. :)
In fact, I will prove you wrong in a very big and very important way soon enough. Just watch out for the next preview.
Foot
Originally Posted by Foot:
In fact, I will prove you wrong in a very big and very important way soon enough. Just watch out for the next preview.
Oh, the suspense!In fact, I will prove you wrong in a very big and very important way soon enough. Just watch out for the next preview.
But are you referring to the next EB1 preview or the next EB2 Stele?
What does "Stele" actually mean BTW?
Originally Posted by mlp071:
Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.Don't know how they came up with that.
What about idea of rebel counterparts of your faction. IMHO it was very challenging in BI. Possibility of civil war gives you permanent threat regardless of your international successes. Why don't keep this challenge alive?Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.Don't know how they came up with that.
I hate this feeling, when my game loses his momentum. You know that feeling too I guess. It happens when you finish struggling in the beginning of the game, settle your economy and... you are doomed to boring conquering ;)
Imagine these AI active, tough and agressive rebellions could be programmed to ally with your enemies (maybe as protectorate) or to takeover your territory.
Emerging of rebellions could be connected with traits of your family members or antagonisms inside family (eg. spartans versus athenians in KH or hellens versus persians in Pontus).
So, don't spawn factions... God save me from my friends - I can protect myself from my enemies. ;)
I think the game needs an Inuit faction.
Get a Scandinavian Faction there in place of Denmark; and in like farther north nations. Like a pre-Saxon team but farther north???
Originally Posted by abou:
I think the game needs an Inuit faction.
Yeah. That would be cool! I think the game needs an Inuit faction.
Originally Posted by I Am Herenow:
What does "Stele" actually mean BTW?
Columm.What does "Stele" actually mean BTW?
Wikipedia is yer friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stele.
Originally Posted by Redmeth:
I think Karltos was joking there but I wouldn't really call it bad blood but I'd wish they'd keep migrating and they do love the great western capitals but they get sent back because of citizenship
. It's just these remnants of nomadic culture that are annoying like no respect for education (they don't send their kids to school after they are 14 years old, the bad taste in architecture etc.)
i was indeed!I think Karltos was joking there but I wouldn't really call it bad blood but I'd wish they'd keep migrating and they do love the great western capitals but they get sent back because of citizenship
. It's just these remnants of nomadic culture that are annoying like no respect for education (they don't send their kids to school after they are 14 years old, the bad taste in architecture etc.)Originally Posted by bovi:
I also think it was meant to be a joke, but it was tasteless.
how was it tastless?I also think it was meant to be a joke, but it was tasteless.
It was tasteless because it was not funny, and prone to offend.
Add my vote to some kind of bosphoran greek kingdom.
Massilia (although historically quite limites) would also be nice, maybe (if historically plausible) in league with emporion.
With a mix of celtic, hellenic and iberian units it would be quite interesting to play and most of the roster is already in place...
Massilia (although historically quite limites) would also be nice, maybe (if historically plausible) in league with emporion.
With a mix of celtic, hellenic and iberian units it would be quite interesting to play and most of the roster is already in place...
A different approach to slowing down the Sweboz expansion - give them their own culture. Instead of the blanket "barbarian" culture, it could be split into Celtic, Iberian, Germanic, Dacian, Baltic/Slavic and so on. Additionaly the culture penalty to settlement happiness could be increased. For a long time Germanic expansion southwards was blocked by the Volcae, who were Celts living in what is now central Germany.
(An interesting aside - as a result "Volcae" entered the Germanic languages as the word for "foreigner". "Wales" actualy gets its name from this root - the Anglo-Saxons referring to it as the territory controlled by the foreigners.)
As for new factions, Nubia would be interesting. Kush was historically a strong regional player, even controlling Eygpt at times. Taharqa was a black pharoah, mentioned in the Bible. I don't know how important the Nubians were by the games starting point though...
Another minor problem is the characters would require new portraits to accurately depict a sub-saharan african people.
Numidia should be there, historically theyr important, but they present a bit of hassle on the culture front. They were not a Semitic people, so the developers have two options - 1: Give them a "Berber" culture to themselves or 2: Make a new "African" culture for Numidia and Carthage and lump the Sabaens in with the "Eastern" factions.
I doubt there'l be a Galatian faction because the EB team are big on historical accuracy, and historicaly the Galatians were never united under one ruler.
(An interesting aside - as a result "Volcae" entered the Germanic languages as the word for "foreigner". "Wales" actualy gets its name from this root - the Anglo-Saxons referring to it as the territory controlled by the foreigners.)
As for new factions, Nubia would be interesting. Kush was historically a strong regional player, even controlling Eygpt at times. Taharqa was a black pharoah, mentioned in the Bible. I don't know how important the Nubians were by the games starting point though...
Another minor problem is the characters would require new portraits to accurately depict a sub-saharan african people.
Numidia should be there, historically theyr important, but they present a bit of hassle on the culture front. They were not a Semitic people, so the developers have two options - 1: Give them a "Berber" culture to themselves or 2: Make a new "African" culture for Numidia and Carthage and lump the Sabaens in with the "Eastern" factions.
I doubt there'l be a Galatian faction because the EB team are big on historical accuracy, and historicaly the Galatians were never united under one ruler.
Originally Posted by Johnny5:
I doubt there'l be a Galatian faction because the EB team are big on historical accuracy, and historicaly the Galatians were never united under one ruler.
What are you basing that on? Galatia was ruled by a council of the leaders of the three big tribes that made up the country. It was a single power sub-divided into three large tribal desmenses, but all of those tribes followed along with the same head council. Also, when they aligned themselves with the Romans and became a Roman protectorate, the Romans selected from among them a man to be their over king.I doubt there'l be a Galatian faction because the EB team are big on historical accuracy, and historicaly the Galatians were never united under one ruler.
Johnny5, I can't comment on the rest of your suggestions, but I know the Total War games have certain hardcoded limits (i.e. ones which modders can't change): things such as the maximum number of provinces, the maximum number of factions and, indeed, the maximum number of different cultures. Therefore the EB team has to work within a fixed limit, which does go up by 1 I believe from RTW to M2, and with any luck might increase for Kingdoms as well.
Ok, after reading a bit about them, I'd like to post my vote for a new faction:
The balares.
The balares were one of the most important nuragic tribes in Sardinia during the 3rd and 2nd century BC, controlling most of interior Sardinia.
Before the punic wars they were an important ally of Carthage, trading grain, olive oil, wine and the occasional mercenary contingent.
After the 1st punic war they were the de facto sole owners of Sardinia, with the carthaginian garrison slaughtered by the mercenary revolt they in turn pushed the mercenaries out of Sardinia.
After the roman tried to seize control of Sardinia they put a stiff resistance using guerrilla warfare with great success, even after they lost at Cornus.
In many ways they were like th Iberians and in fact some of the western tribes of Sardinia were of iberian origin, while in the east they had significant ties with the Etruscans.
They would start in control of central Sardinia (if a settlement could be spared from there) with Tiscali or Nukor (alternatively western sardinia with Tharros or North with Turris but those were under punic influence) as capital.
Their roster would be based on light infantry with ambush tactics, mostly spearmen, archers and axemen with the nobles being the heavier units.
Sadinian ponies at the time were not apt for field battles being used to mountainous terrain so they would start with little or no native cavalry.
Their area of expansion would be the western mediterranean, with Sardinia, Corsica, eastern Iberia and the former etruscan areas of Italy.
Getting out of History for a second and shrouding in myth, here is a little link that will stir some debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locatio...antis#Sardinia
The balares.
The balares were one of the most important nuragic tribes in Sardinia during the 3rd and 2nd century BC, controlling most of interior Sardinia.
Before the punic wars they were an important ally of Carthage, trading grain, olive oil, wine and the occasional mercenary contingent.
After the 1st punic war they were the de facto sole owners of Sardinia, with the carthaginian garrison slaughtered by the mercenary revolt they in turn pushed the mercenaries out of Sardinia.
After the roman tried to seize control of Sardinia they put a stiff resistance using guerrilla warfare with great success, even after they lost at Cornus.
In many ways they were like th Iberians and in fact some of the western tribes of Sardinia were of iberian origin, while in the east they had significant ties with the Etruscans.
They would start in control of central Sardinia (if a settlement could be spared from there) with Tiscali or Nukor (alternatively western sardinia with Tharros or North with Turris but those were under punic influence) as capital.
Their roster would be based on light infantry with ambush tactics, mostly spearmen, archers and axemen with the nobles being the heavier units.
Sadinian ponies at the time were not apt for field battles being used to mountainous terrain so they would start with little or no native cavalry.
Their area of expansion would be the western mediterranean, with Sardinia, Corsica, eastern Iberia and the former etruscan areas of Italy.
Getting out of History for a second and shrouding in myth, here is a little link that will stir some debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locatio...antis#Sardinia
Did all the old EB fans move to EB2 forums?...
plz include an alpine faction...
plz include an alpine faction...
i would like to see the greeks split up some more. make athens and sparta not apart of the same faction, also the greek faction in the balkans to include more lands, seeing how the greeks colonized almost all of the shores of the black sea.
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