EB July New Units Preview

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Nice to see that Karthies Forest Nellie, will now be getting a Howda and extra fire power. Digby.

A question to the EB team: Wasn't the original reason why the Carthies did not have howdas on their elephants the one that they didin't use those? Just wondering.

[Bactron]

For the Garamantine unit we were unhappy with the depiction shown in most mods as it comes froma drawing that is a conglomeration of different periods and cultures but nothing firmyl Garamantian. So we decided to go deeper and try to find out the truth about the Garamantian's appearance. In order to do this we contacted Professor David Mattingly who works on excavations in Libya including the Garamantine capital of Garama. He was very helpful and supplied us with images of Garamantine rock art from our period of history as well as information regarding the economy and military of Garama at the time and stuff on their cultural dress. He also showed us images from Egyption paintings of Libyans that are very similar to the rock art and help to give us a better image of the appearance of the Garamantines. I am not sure if the images he showed us are published or not yet so I have to check before I post them. Posting unpublished material in archaeology is a really big no no.

Wow that is quite a story. You guys rocks (and so doe's Professor Mattingly)! Really the dedication, the talent, the will etc., you have it all.

[LusitanianWolf]

AWESOME!!!!!!!!
I want the next release!!!!! Congrats to the team!!

[KARTLOS]

For the Garamantine unit we were unhappy with the depiction shown in most mods as it comes froma drawing that is a conglomeration of different periods and cultures but nothing firmyl Garamantian. So we decided to go deeper and try to find out the truth about the Garamantian's appearance. In order to do this we contacted Professor David Mattingly who works on excavations in Libya including the Garamantine capital of Garama. He was very helpful and supplied us with images of Garamantine rock art from our period of history as well as information regarding the economy and military of Garama at the time and stuff on their cultural dress. He also showed us images from Egyption paintings of Libyans that are very similar to the rock art and help to give us a better image of the appearance of the Garamantines. I am not sure if the images he showed us are published or not yet so I have to check before I post them. Posting unpublished material in archaeology is a really big no no.

thanks for the reply.

who wil they be available for?

[Tellos Athenaios]

If the textures in EB are mainly 256x256, then what will they be in EB2, 512x512?

M2TW uses 1024x1024, but that space is used to store all internal units variations as well. So, effectively it amounts to a number of 512x512 textures packed in a bigger one. Or so I thought one of the artists explained.

[Tellos Athenaios]

thanks for the reply.

who wil they be available for?

Carthies & Eleutheroi, at least.

[abou]

Yup, four 512x512 variant skins.

[adishee]

I don't think we know yet. They aren't in the internal builds yet. Should be in our next internal release though because Xprime is really good about uploading units and getting them to Spendios, who integrates them.

All our units except for the generals are 256x256. Sometimes we want to go up to 512x512, but we don't want to make the game even more resource intensive for players without super computers.

As for the reformata... wait and see.

Oh please! Those are 512s

[paullus]

nerp...you should've seen the 512 versions!

[russia almighty]

I could have sworn that RTW was limited to 256x256 or is that just mod gentlemen's agree .


anyway the most interesting unit so far is the parthian auxiliary . TPC didn't lie on GFAQS about Parthia getting pimped out .

[Pius Curus]

@Philipvs Valliendervs Calicula

I did not await so many notes to my innocent questions. I am very sorry of my mistake, I have found the book...scutum was carried really "from up to down", but it is strange, that in early medieval period the "almond shield" was carried from "from down to up".

[Hooahguy]

i like the units, but i think the plume of the cohors imperatoria should be taken off and the shields a little bigger. other than that- awesome! great work!

[Foot]

i like the units, but i think the plume of the cohors imperatoria should be taken off and the shields a little bigger. other than that- awesome! great work!

I mean, is there a reason for that? That's not a productive thing to say really. Do you have evidence that their shields are the wrong size, or that they shouldn't have plumes?

Foot

[Hooahguy]

I mean, is there a reason for that? That's not a productive thing to say really. Do you have evidence that their shields are the wrong size, or that they shouldn't have plumes?

Foot

according to Adrian Goldsworthy, plumes for the regular solders started to die out by Augustus time.with the shields, they just look better when theyre bigger.

[Foot]

Yeah, nevermind, saw the discussion over at the TWC. I guess others can take it up, I imagine there won't be any changing though, the roman guys have put a lot of work into these units.

Foot

[Hooahguy]

its ok- i guess ill just have to deal with it

[Zaknafien]

Plumes are here to stay. Shield sizes are taken from recreations of period shields. What makes you think its too small, just out of curiosity?

[geala]

Really great! When will... (don't answer).

If you will not give the Garamantine warrior also to the Ptolemaioi regional MICs, it will be the first time I have to play Quart-Hadast. Is it a javelinman? It seems to be and I hope so.

I'm not so aware of the Roman units, but does the lost of the feminalia on the posted units mean that this questionable piece of cloth/leather will also (and with even more reason) disappear on the Marian units?

The scutum of the Cohors Imperatoria is not the older oval scutum, but the transitionary form with straight small sides. Apparently it was considerably shorter than the older scuti. I have more problems with the shield of the Cohors Evocata, being of the older oval type (?). At first glance I would say a longer one (from ankle to the shoulder) would please my feelings more, but I would never argue with the specialists about it. Maybe my feelings come from the memory of the D. Ahenobarbus altar, being some earlier.

I have a question about the Arabian slinger. Does not A. Marcellinus wrote somewhere that many Arabian warriors walked half-naked? Don't know where I read it. The depicted guy is wearing a lot of cloth instead. (Btw I don't think that wearing many clothes makes a human a better one or even more civilised, so don't get me wrong in that way that I thought, the Arabians were primitive). I'm just wondering about your sources.

The Sweboz general is fine. I'm just fighting these bloody German barbarians and hope to see this gentle leader of my foes soon. As a sidenote: I would not say that the Germanic tribes of the EB era were civilised. They had a culture and no culture is more worth than another, but civilisation for me is connected with a more differentiated society, a form of public life with real citizens beyond tribal loyality and at least partly urban culture. So perhaps the Celts were civilised but not the Germans. It is not necessary to be too politically correct, otherwise every definition (which means distinction) gets lost. That does not mean the Germans were not proper clad, armed and armoured if it could be afforded.

Edit: Another question. The Thureopherontes Toxotai, how will he handle his shield when shooting with the bow? Is it held in the left hand still or slung around the back?

Summary: I cannot wait for the next EB release...

[Hooahguy]

Plumes are here to stay. Shield sizes are taken from recreations of period shields. What makes you think its too small, just out of curiosity?

well, i looked into the subject, and i found out i was wrong about the shields. you had the size right- 3.3 feet in length, 2.75 feet in width.

as for the plumes, im gonna fight that tooth and nail. the type of helmet that is shown for the cohors imperatoria is the Coolus-pattern helmet. i dont have the exact quote from Adrian Goldsworthy, but here is all i can remember about what he said, about creasts and plumes during the Principate:
“Crests were prized objects for soldiers…. crests on the helmets for soldiers during the Principate were strictly for parades, not battle.”

[Hooahguy]

a question- will the praetorians be reskinned too? and will they have crests on their helmets this time?

[Zaknafien]

well, a crest is not a plume, you know. I'll respond in depth later but I have to go back to work.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

well, i looked into the subject, and i found out i was wrong about the shields. you had the size right- 3.3 feet in length, 2.75 feet in width.

as for the plumes, im gonna fight that tooth and nail. the type of helmet that is shown for the cohors imperatoria is the Coolus-pattern helmet. i dont have the exact quote from Adrian Goldsworthy, but here is all i can remember about what he said, about creasts and plumes during the Principate:
“Crests were prized objects for soldiers…. crests on the helmets for soldiers during the Principate were strictly for parades, not battle.”

Coolus helms don't really mount crests like the later IG helms, they have knobs better suited to feather/horsehair plumes. Such plumes were quite cheat, you just need a horse with a black tail.

Later, the box mounted crests were usually not worn because they were easily damaged and quite expensive. It's worth noting that we cannot be sure exactly what type of crest the Legionaries wore.

In EB the Praetorians wear the later IG helm, which is why they do not have crests or plumes. Those units which require changes are reskinned, the list of units require such changes is still under review. I do not wish to say whether or not a unit will be changed until that unit has actually been altered.

As to Goldsworthy, he is far too general in many cases and makes far too many statements, such as the one you posted. Most of his commonly accessable books are designed for the interested layman. His "Complete" Roman Army, for example, glosses over the difference between the early and late 3rd Century.

As to the size of the Evocata's Scuta, it's as exact as our artist could make it.

[Hooahguy]

thanks for the info- i guess ill just have to make do with the plumes- or whatever you call them. but i am curious- can you cite your sources for your evidence that legionaries during the early Principate had plumes or whatever you call it, on their Coolus helmets?

ps- im pleased that the evocata wont have the IG helmets, as they do now. so to summarize, im pleased with the work in general (cant wait to use them! ) and they look fantastic- so life like!

[Hooahguy]

As to Goldsworthy, he is far too general in many cases and makes far too many statements, such as the one you posted. Most of his commonly accessable books are designed for the interested layman. His "Complete" Roman Army, for example, glosses over the difference between the early and late 3rd Century.

then which historians do you think are reliable?

[abou]

Goldsworthy is fine, but, as Philip said, he is too general. His latest book Caesar is great and I recommend it, but for an analysis of the Roman army you are going to need to look somewhere else. Stay away from Osprey though. They have a book published about the Republican army, but they kept showing plates with details from the Sacrifice and Census portion of the Altar from the Temple of Neptune (previously known as the "Altar of Domitius Ahenobarbus"), which has been dated to ~100 BC.

[Hooahguy]

o ya- IIRC, in recent excavations of the site of the disaster of the Teutoberg Forest, a number of Coolus helmets have been found, without horsehair plumes, or whatever you call them. and IIRC, horsehair doesnt decay, so i guess this is proof there were no horsehair plumes during the principate, but i may be wrong.

as a side request- can you make the Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers darker? they are so white they make my eyes bleed!
no, seriously, they are really light-colored.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Perhaps you have your brightness levels too high? I've adjusted my monitor settings to correct levels, and the skirmishers display just fine (without the head-hurting white-out).

[Hooahguy]

is the brightness level in the options menu?

[paullus]

yeah i think so...and who are the hellenic heavy skirmishers? peltastai?

[Hooahguy]

ya- they are- pretty good soldiers too!