Results 1 to 30 of 67

Thread: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Lalaland
    Posts
    3,125

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    A bad day Kafir?

    Anyway, I'm not sure how after a general indictment of capitalism you proceed to conclude that "Marxism will ultimately succeed" out of the blue. I mean, sure, they're usually portrayed as opposite ideologies and all that, but still.

    Unless of course you merely bring Marx up as to allude to his (excellent) indictment against capitalism, as I'm not sure how his (wishy-washy utopian) own models is worked into the rant's conclusion.

  2. #2
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Northville, Michigan
    Posts
    4,259

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    The Greed goes both ways with unions and corporations. Once again, I'll use my union filled state, one of the last actually, Michigan, as an example.

    During the 1990s when everyone was making money, the auto manufacturers in Michigan, for example, the unions demanded better wages and benefits. Sure, good for them, they deserve a little more, but a limit was needed. What they did unfortunately, was get greedy. They demanded more, more, and more. I mean, they were paying people 60 bucks an hour to cut the flipping grass!!! GM/Ford realized that this was not good in the long run and they couldn't afford it in future years, but at the moment, they didn't care enough to say no. They were making loads of cash, and didn't want to make the unions angry. So they caved to most, if not all, of the unions' demands.

    Now, what's happening today? These companies cannot pay for what they agreed to anymore due the recession we are having in Michigan. What's happening is mainly the young union members are getting screwed over. While GM and Ford still have to pay the older ones pensions and such, they don't have much for the younger ones.

    It was a two way street of moronism (I made that up ). It's easy to blame corporations, but there are usually more people at fault.

    I fail to see how Marxism will take over capitalism. Like Lemur stated, show me one successful Marxist economy. I'd be awfully surprised if you did.

    Capitalism has it's flaws, there will always be winners and losers, but with Marxism there will only be losers.
    Last edited by Ice; 07-28-2007 at 09:34.



  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    3,523

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    Funny enough, Marxism worked. Not in it so-called application in some countries, but in its basic analyse:
    People fight each other for power, to take from the rich to give to poor. However, when some poor become rich, they defend their new class interest: See USSR.
    Marx is a thinker of the 19th Century, so because the new values of the Capitalism are basic 19th Century rules (free market will solved every thing), so yeap, Marxism is still valid.
    And give me one country where capitalism worked? Where thank to Capitalism all people have a dignity in work, enough to sent family in holidays and kids to school…
    If Socialism and Communism did appeared it is because Capitalism failed… But now, we have fundamentalism… Much better…
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  4. #4
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Denver working on the Railroad
    Posts
    10,660

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    What I find interesting about the rant Kafir is that the industry I just started working for is unionized and can shut down the nation if the collective bargaining breaks down. Both the corporations involved in the negotations and the unions themselves have to cooperate and bring about wage, health, and retirement packages that benefit both.

    ie check out the Railroad unions.
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  5. #5
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Eye of the Hurricane (FL)
    Posts
    3,372

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    "The theory of the Communism may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."
    "From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needs."
    "Communism deprives no man of the ability to appropriate the fruits of his labour. The only thing it deprives him of is the ability to enslave others by means of such appropriations."
    "Democracy is the road to socialism."
    "Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. Working men of all countries, unite!"
    -Marx-

    Communism has never come to power in a country that was not disrupted by war or corruption, or both."
    -JFK-

    "How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
    -Reagan-

    "For us in Russia communism is a dead dog. For many people in the West, it is still a living lion."
    "I have spent all my life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society without any objective legal scale is a terrible one indeed. But a society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy of man either."
    "In our country, the lie has become not just a moral category but a pillar of the State."
    -Solzhenitsyn-

    "Communism doesn't work because people like to own stuff."
    -Zappa-

    Then there is another one about new world order not being a new world order....

    Thought I bring in some good quotes.
    Last edited by Marshal Murat; 07-28-2007 at 15:34.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    East of Augusta Vindelicorum
    Posts
    5,575

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    Actually one of the earliest experiments in socialism took place in what would become the United States. It was the Plymouth Colony. It soon failed however as people being people resented doing work for others that they saw no benefit in....

    People seem to resent that! Even if the benefit is delayed or not immediately evident.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  7. #7
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,677

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking
    People seem to resent that! Even if the benefit is delayed or not immediately evident.
    The ability to wait for a delayed benefit is also what helps people become successful in the corporate culture... particularly for those who own their own business or those who are worker bees with qualifications...
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  8. #8
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Lalaland
    Posts
    3,125

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
    "How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin."
    -Reagan-[emphasis mine]
    lol.

    Evil Empire ahahaha. Next time find someone less...vested...if you're gonna bring out Quotations Are Always Right 101.

    I'm no fan of Marx and his strange ideas, but seriously. Nobody in his right mind (well, except the capitalists) would say that pure laissez-faire capitalism isn't also a dystopia in the making. The USA, bastion of rightist liberalism and all that, is a mixed economy for a reason.

  9. #9
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    4,979

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    The reason capitalism doesn't work (sometimes) is because the government intervenes in such a way as to break it, for one reason or another.

  10. #10
    The Usual Member Ice's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Northville, Michigan
    Posts
    4,259

    Default Re: Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus
    And give me one country where capitalism worked? Where thank to Capitalism all people have a dignity in work, enough to sent family in holidays and kids to school…
    Uh, try most of the Western Democracies in Europe and North America. I said it had its flaws. Every system has winners and losers, there is no perfect system that can make everyone happy, make everyone equal. That is a pipe dream.

    Regulated Capitalism is probably the best system we have.



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO