Why Marxism will ultimately succeed - as real capitalism

[KafirChobee]

This is a rant, but one I challange those that oppose the premices to justify why not.

The working middleclass is under attack - the very retirement system the unionized fathers fought for is under attack by corporate forces they elect to congress - the democrats are willing to betray them to acquire power and the republicans have spent 80 years coming up with reasons to kill unions. The death of unions in America is all but inevitable. Or, not.

Thank Zeus, for those indoctrinated with the concept that having to pay union dues is a bad thing - those that received the benefits unions created (minimum wages, health & life insurance, forcing companies to acknowledge their workers are humanbeings) they always knew it was wrong to give anything to the workers. I mean corporations have always been good to their workers - just name an incident they weren't in the past 100 days.

Besides, consider the adjustments that corporations were always willing to pay health insurance or compensation for injury to those it occurred to without their actually being held resposible for (seems if they ain't guily they are more willing to pat a pitance than if they might actually be held responsible = leave those in control alone.
Or, we gain control of the democracy; we define what democracy is - and we define it as "greed is good" - manipulation by expressing the American (how the world sees us) dream (taking advantage of anyone one knows).

After all, we all know, corporations are and have always looked out for the goodwill of all their employees - be they making a dollar a day or five thouisand a day, pr if they could turn them into slaves.

Oh, wait - we now have CEOs making a $million a day. One must realize though that it can be really hard to get by on a million a day - unless you haven't been there ... don't judge them.

Then again we have 8billion people on a piece of sand in the sky. Most of whom work for barely enough money to survive - imagine if you will (walk in their shoes for a day - or reject the posibilty simply because you are white) that to exist you will accept do just about anything for you and your family to survive.


A world of 8Billion and corporate powers playing the religious cards to turn the ignorant upon themselves - versus facing the fact that the wealthy know how to own them (all of us), twist things back to their advantage.

Nothing new here - it is as it has always been. Except, they now have a buncha a nut cases that want to turn the world into "one" religion (Islam - or Baptist - take your choice) and by continueing their 200 year plan they may not only destroy the unions (and being inclined to paying fair wages), but they can destroy that pesky idea of equality.

You know - like we are all equal in a democracy? Ask Europe what they think about our US style of democracy - hell, ask an Iraqi.
To continue - Democracy will fail because of the few. It will fail because those with wealth are unwilling to share it. It will fail in America when the corporations that shared with employees cease sharing with the sons of the fathers that served them.

Marxism will ultimately succeed because of the greed of the few - and the few's confidence of convincing themselves that they can always create truths that the 8Billion will accept as their new reality, or continue as is - letting the less fortunate

Of couse now that the corporations own the right to do, say, or own anyone - who knows.

But, they do make a case for Marxism. Don't they?

[Lemur]

Hmm, I take issue with the vast majority of what you wrote, but I'm just going to ask a question -- can you show me an example of functioning Marxism? Anywhere? I really suspect that market economics are as good as it's going to get for a while. I'm not religious on the issue -- I don't think free markets are the cure for every ill under the sun -- but nobody's come up with a better solution for harnessing human greed, ingenuity and creativity.

But you know what they say -- in the '90s capitalism defeated communism, and in the '00s capitalism will defeat democracy. I don't really believe that, of course, but it makes me giggle like a schoolgirl.

[AntiochusIII]

A bad day Kafir?

Anyway, I'm not sure how after a general indictment of capitalism you proceed to conclude that "Marxism will ultimately succeed" out of the blue. I mean, sure, they're usually portrayed as opposite ideologies and all that, but still.

Unless of course you merely bring Marx up as to allude to his (excellent) indictment against capitalism, as I'm not sure how his (wishy-washy utopian) own models is worked into the rant's conclusion.

[Ice]

The Greed goes both ways with unions and corporations. Once again, I'll use my union filled state, one of the last actually, Michigan, as an example.

During the 1990s when everyone was making money, the auto manufacturers in Michigan, for example, the unions demanded better wages and benefits. Sure, good for them, they deserve a little more, but a limit was needed. What they did unfortunately, was get greedy. They demanded more, more, and more. I mean, they were paying people 60 bucks an hour to cut the flipping grass!!! GM/Ford realized that this was not good in the long run and they couldn't afford it in future years, but at the moment, they didn't care enough to say no. They were making loads of cash, and didn't want to make the unions angry. So they caved to most, if not all, of the unions' demands.

Now, what's happening today? These companies cannot pay for what they agreed to anymore due the recession we are having in Michigan. What's happening is mainly the young union members are getting screwed over. While GM and Ford still have to pay the older ones pensions and such, they don't have much for the younger ones.

It was a two way street of moronism (I made that up ). It's easy to blame corporations, but there are usually more people at fault.

I fail to see how Marxism will take over capitalism. Like Lemur stated, show me one successful Marxist economy. I'd be awfully surprised if you did.

Capitalism has it's flaws, there will always be winners and losers, but with Marxism there will only be losers.

[Brenus]

Funny enough, Marxism worked. Not in it so-called application in some countries, but in its basic analyse:
People fight each other for power, to take from the rich to give to poor. However, when some poor become rich, they defend their new class interest: See USSR.
Marx is a thinker of the 19th Century, so because the new values of the Capitalism are basic 19th Century rules (free market will solved every thing), so yeap, Marxism is still valid.
And give me one country where capitalism worked? Where thank to Capitalism all people have a dignity in work, enough to sent family in holidays and kids to school…
If Socialism and Communism did appeared it is because Capitalism failed… But now, we have fundamentalism… Much better…

[Redleg]

What I find interesting about the rant Kafir is that the industry I just started working for is unionized and can shut down the nation if the collective bargaining breaks down. Both the corporations involved in the negotations and the unions themselves have to cooperate and bring about wage, health, and retirement packages that benefit both.

ie check out the Railroad unions.

[Ice]

And give me one country where capitalism worked? Where thank to Capitalism all people have a dignity in work, enough to sent family in holidays and kids to school…

Uh, try most of the Western Democracies in Europe and North America. I said it had its flaws. Every system has winners and losers, there is no perfect system that can make everyone happy, make everyone equal. That is a pipe dream.

Regulated Capitalism is probably the best system we have.