Just an off-topic thread for WTW

[alexader]

ok ,whatever you say(i can't chance your mind)but i don't belive in that but it's your opinion and i respect it(so every game should have the tolkien copyright below,right?)(but for the love of god it not just one man that invented all this,what have bwian to tell about this?i would like to see his opinion to(i'm not fighting you Jubal_Barca,it's just an argument,so be cool).

[Krazysigmarite]

It's basically common knowledge that all fantasy games are inspired by one another. But there is a difference between Inspiration and Plagiarism.

INSPIRATION: LOTR inspires Warhammer
PLAGIARISM: Warhammer is plagiarised by Warcraft (and it's gothic sci-fi counterpart 40k into starcraft )

Not really going to delve into why I personally believe this, but every solid fact points to the above conclusion, after one does research.

LOTR will always hold a place in the hearts of fantasy fans, but it has the disadvantage of being a universe stuck in limbo, that will never change, because the creator is dead.

Warhammer has one of the most detailed and rich universes ever created, and the historical references in it are amazingly deep and intelligent. It isn't politically correct, or dumbed-down for mass consumption. There is no pure good, or pure evil, in the Warhammer universe. It is not darkness against light. It is an insane world, and because of this, it is entirely believable - it is essentially our world, with magic and monsters representing the best and worst aspects of the human psyche and culture.

[Decker]

It's basically common knowledge that all fantasy games are inspired by one another. But there is a difference between Inspiration and Plagiarism.

INSPIRATION: LOTR inspires Warhammer
PLAGIARISM: Warhammer is plagiarised by Warcraft (and it's gothic sci-fi counterpart 40k into starcraft )

Not really going to delve into why I personally believe this, but every solid fact points to the above conclusion, after one does research.

LOTR will always hold a place in the hearts of fantasy fans, but it has the disadvantage of being a universe stuck in limbo, that will never change, because the creator is dead.

Warhammer has one of the most detailed and rich universes ever created, and the historical references in it are amazingly deep and intelligent. It isn't politically correct, or dumbed-down for mass consumption. There is no pure good, or pure evil, in the Warhammer universe. It is not darkness against light. It is an insane world, and because of this, it is entirely believable - it is essentially our world, with magic and monsters representing the best and worst aspects of the human psyche and culture.

INSPIRATION: LOTR inspires Warhammer
PLAGIARISM: Warhammer is plagiarised by Warcraft (and it's gothic sci-fi counterpart 40k into starcraft )

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
It's easy as pie to at least get some idea:
Zerg= Tyranids
Terrans=Space Marines
Protoss=Eldar

LOTR will always hold a place in the hearts of fantasy fans, but it has the disadvantage of being a universe stuck in limbo, that will never change, because the creator is dead.

Warhammer has one of the most detailed and rich universes ever created, and the historical references in it are amazingly deep and intelligent. It isn't politically correct, or dumbed-down for mass consumption. There is no pure good, or pure evil, in the Warhammer universe. It is not darkness against light. It is an insane world, and because of this, it is entirely believable - it is essentially our world, with magic and monsters representing the best and worst aspects of the human psyche and culture.

That's the best discription of Warhammer I've seen in a long time and the answer I was looking for in my first post on this thread.

[Jubal_Barca]

The fact is that Tolkein is where the modern concepts of the major fantasy races first appeared. If you can find references of
- Human size 'elder race' Elves
- Heavily Armoured slow moving Dwarves with Axes
- Orcs as wild rampaging hordes of man sized man killers

Before or at the same time as Tolkein, I'll be happy to take your point.

(I love a good debate lol)

[Bwian]

Hmm Tolkien..lets see..

Read the Hobbit when I was 7, Lord of the Rings when I was 12 ....then read the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales 1 & 2 and ALL the extra books Christopher Tolkien released with the sketches, notes and fragments of story that he found amongst his fathers papers. The man was a masterful story teller.

Also, he virtually invented the modern take on fantasy novels. How many books have 'Comparable to Tolien at his best' on the back cover...though this often just means someone tried to make up a language and slapped a map on the fron of the book....

He took elements of Anglo Saxon myth and dark ages superstition and created a world around it. He created it in such depth that he had a creation myth, gods, history, language, writing, and a complete history ...before he wrote a book!

He didn't need to create artwork to make his characters live, and hte whole point of such work was that the imagination of th ereader decided how things would look. There were basic descriptions, but for orcs...these were largely behaviour, habits and nature. We knew roughly how big they were, how strong they were, and we knew that Morgoth had corrupted Elves to make them, since he could create no new life of his own...only Manwe could do that ( as he did for the Dwarves )

Warhammer, however, is all about WAR. The history doesn't matter to me, and the fan fiction written about th eraces is pretty weak in comparison. I wouldn't try to make a LOTR mod for M2TW, purely because I have a personal idea of what things were like ( NOT what Mr Jackson put in his film.... ) and it's a very difficult world to model. Warhammer, however, has definite images, and no need to worry about backstory when you are making a campaign map. To me...Sauron always loses the War of the Ring, the Battle of the Pelennor Fields always happens, Saruman always gets overthrown at Isenguard....and the ring always ends up going into Mount Doom to bring an end to the Third Age ( and Gollum ) at the Cracks of Doom. MAke a mod based on LOTR and these things don't happen. Not right!

[alexader]

Jubal_Barca,ok i can't find something right now to"attack"you lol,so you won a battle ,but not the WAR,lol,MUHAHAHAHAHHAAAA ,If anyone else has an opinion,please tell it,also jubal_barca if you want to insult me just send me A pm,ok,i am open,LOL,LOL,LOL.

[Taranaich]

The fact is that Tolkein is where the modern concepts of the major fantasy races first appeared. If you can find references of
- Human size 'elder race' Elves
- Heavily Armoured slow moving Dwarves with Axes
- Orcs as wild rampaging hordes of man sized man killers

Tolkien didn't invent the modern vision of elves. He based his elves on the Alfar of Norse mythology, who were beautiful and powerful humanoid beings, with a great deal of intermarriage with humans and a lot of battle.

The modern pointy-eared, forest-dwelling, androngynous elves are a creation of Dungeons & Dragons, which was unfortunately perpetuated by the Lord of the Rings movies, and are a rather sad shadow of the mighty, virile beings he had in mind, who had no problems wielding big axes or living in caves. The D&D Elves seem to bear a closer resemblance to Dunsany's elves in The King of Elfland's Daughter than Tolkien's.

Likewise, Tolkien's orcs are rather different from modern fantasy orcs: his are usually much shorter than humans, with swarthy skin, fangs and surprising intelligence. Compare this to the frequently green-skinned, porcine-faced orcs who are usually bigger and much more stupid than humans.

Tolkien did, however, give us the modern Dwarf (even if he envisaged them more as Jewish than Norse, bizarrely enough), and a lot of work was still highly influential.

I personally think Warhammer owes more to Michael Moorcock than Tolkien: the central war between Law and Chaos (and, more subtly, Man vs Himself) is central to Moorcock's stories, and just as important to the Warhammer setting. By extension, Warhammer also takes a lot of Moorcock's own influences H.P Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard (the chaos gods, lizardmen etc). Warhammer's more a melting pot of fantasy than having any one inspiration, as well as taking real history for their races and history.

[Wilhelm The Mediocre]

[QUOTE=Bwian]we knew that Morgoth had corrupted Elves to make them, since he could create no new life of his own...only Manwe could do that ( as he did for the Dwarves )QUOTE]

At risk of upsetting the glorious chieftain of the WTW mod project with my unnecessary pointing-out-of-the-error, I merely desire to say that it was Aulë who created the Dwarves, for he desired learners, that he could pass on his craft to others.

[aeow]

But whatever about the books or the back story if you take an orc form LotR an orc form warcaft and an orc from warhammer in the same room. Warhammer would own them all.

[Bwian]

Aule did indeed fashion his children, but Manwe gave them independant life. It was only his gift that allowed this. Aule had broken the rules even making the Dwarves, and Manwe ordered their destruction. Aule couldn't bring himself to do it, and Manwe relented and the fathers of the Dwarves were born, though Manwe knew his children and those of Aule would not get on well .....

[Zapp]

Off topic thread? Cool, now we just need an "action thread" with Gurkhal, Spanky, Grogglan, and uhm... the other guys at the old zodiak-productions website (I can't believe I don't remember the names of the other guys with the massive postcounts!)

[DrZoidberg]

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this.
It's easy as pie to at least get some idea:
Zerg= Tyranids
Terrans=Space Marines
Protoss=Eldar

And the most frightening thing is that Blizzard has copyrighted all they can which means that if Games Workshop would make a Warhammer game true in every detail they will get sued, by the people who stole their ideas to begin with. It was a while back I read up on it, but one example is the Gyrocopter.

There's a whole forum somewhere dedicated to people that have been sued by Blizzard for making fan stuff to Blizzard franchises and other worlds Blizzard has ripped stuff from. Sad, sad reads.

Their business practices alone should make people think twice before getting into any of their games. Without stealing there's no progress and Blizzard who's stolen more than anyone else know this off-course.

[Bwian]

Good god .... I had better get back to making models for M2TW ..... it's the only way to keep you lot sane!

I take a break from making new content and you all get very wierd indeed!

A lesson learnt

[Decker]

Good god .... I had better get back to making models for M2TW ..... it's the only way to keep you lot sane!

I take a break from making new content and you all get very wierd indeed!

A lesson learnt

Well how else are we going to pass the time

No back on topic:

And the most frightening thing is that Blizzard has copyrighted all they can which means that if Games Workshop would make a Warhammer game true in every detail they will get sued, by the people who stole their ideas to begin with. It was a while back I read up on it, but one example is the Gyrocopter.

There's a whole forum somewhere dedicated to people that have been sued by Blizzard for making fan stuff to Blizzard franchises and other worlds Blizzard has ripped stuff from. Sad, sad reads.

Their business practices alone should make people think twice before getting into any of their games. Without stealing there's no progress and Blizzard who's stolen more than anyone else know this off-course.

Wow Zoid, that was like refreshing the memory. I think I heard the same kinda thing on another forum and I also thing in one of the gaming mags(forgot which one).

There's a whole forum somewhere dedicated to people that have been sued by Blizzard for making fan stuff to Blizzard franchises and other worlds Blizzard has ripped stuff from.

And I'd like too see that site as I know somebody a while back had a mod terminated for that very reason.

Their business practices alone should make people think twice before getting into any of their games. Without stealing there's no progress and Blizzard who's stolen more than anyone else know this off-course.

I don't know how Blizzard could sue Games Workshop over Warhammer but Starcraft is probably the one game that might make them sweat a little if Warhammer 40K is mentioned, and specifically the 3 "culprits."