Traitorous English Nobles...

**ForgotMyOldNick** · 08-01-2007, 09:09

Started an England campaign last night and on 3 seperate occasions English family members became traitors.

The only thing I could think of at the time (because it was new to me and no enemy agents nearby so...) was to recruit spies and insert them into the armies they lead. Which seemed to stop it. And after putting them into some battles they didn't go traitor anymore due to raised stats maybe.

I am not sure of the factors that made this happen. Could someone enlighten me?

And how do I counter the 'Feels Unappreciated' occurring?

**sirnoob** · 08-01-2007, 09:16

you're right putting them in battles make them feel appreciated also marrying them to a princess and probably other things basicly just keep them in settlements or send them to lots of battles and you shouldn't have a problem.

**ForgotMyOldNick** · 08-01-2007, 09:28

At the time they were idle, I was teching up and building their armies North of London so I suppose that contributed to it. But is it the only reason/factor? Surely there is something other than an idle army (well maybe in that it didn't move but troops were going back and forth) that makes the noble leading it go traitor? I had to use a spy as well so...

**icek** · 08-01-2007, 09:35

from what i learned from observation giving such general a command of large army give you a high posibility for loyalty bonuses for him. Its risky but the most easy way. Also i think that dreaded generals tend more to betray than chivalrous ones, so beware for sons of tyran's with attribute "heritage of fear".

**Askthepizzaguy** · 08-01-2007, 10:22

What was the Authority rating of your faction leader?

Low authority is the primary cause for treason. Even an otherwise disloyal noble will never rebel under the leadership of an authoritative king. On the other hand, having low authority means almost everyone needs to be babysat or end their turn inside a city. Uber low loyalty nobles should be paired up with loyal nobles on the campaign map, so that they are treated as a normal unit that will never rebel (unless for some reason your more loyal noble rebels as well).

When you get a bad King, you need to drag his inferior highness onto the battlefield and win many battles, or get terribly scarred doing so. That will raise your authority. Having high chivalry/dread helps as well.

**ataribaby** · 08-01-2007, 11:40

Also, I read somewhere that a chivalrous general loses loyalty over time if the faction leader is dreadful and continues to commit dreadful acts (and vice-versa) via gaining the Dicontent General line of traits. So the game likes factions to be morally consistent.

**icek** · 08-01-2007, 14:01

Originally Posted by ataribaby

Also, I read somewhere that a chivalrous general loses loyalty over time if the faction leader is dreadful and continues to commit dreadful acts (and vice-versa) via gaining the Dicontent General line of traits. So the game likes factions to be morally consistent.

I dont think it works this way. Not exacly this way, because you can have a dreadful king with 10 dread because of use of spies and assasins, play as good knight and have veracious reputation like i do. In my game the only one guy with loyalty problems is the only son of rufus with heritage of fear.
I think it depends more on player playstyle than on kings way of life.

**ReiseReise** · 08-01-2007, 14:46

I believe the general training guide in another subforum here (the one with all the faction guides) says that Chivalrous Generals will lose loyalty to a Dreadful King, however the reverse is not true. I believe the thread title had reference to Sun Tzu and Machiavelli. It was an excellent read on how to get Chivalry or Dread for your generals.

Anyway, it does sound like you are having authority problems. Your nobles can't be loyal if there is nobody with authority to be loyal too!

**tarbanrael** · 08-01-2007, 15:25

I firmly believe that this is an inherent trait in English nobles!

Seriously though, I have seen this happen with some of my French generals. 2 of them deserted after I had lost my king and my new king was still stuck in the Holy Land. I have not managed to track them down: does anyone know if this is possible? I'd love to make an example "pour encourager les autres"

**icek** · 08-01-2007, 18:06

Originally Posted by ReiseReise

I believe the general training guide in another subforum here (the one with all the faction guides) says that Chivalrous Generals will lose loyalty to a Dreadful King, however the reverse is not true.

And i believe its wrong or at least totally not realistic. In reality chivalrous knight would feel fear towards his dreaded king as its writed in 10 dread description that even the bravest need special motivation to meet with such person. On the other hand, dreaded generals that live for battle and war would just fell pity for having a chivalrous king that stops they progress. Remember the relations between king of jerusalem and leader of templars in kingdom of heaven movie. Dreaded general could rebel in some occasions againts his chivalrous king ,but for chivalrous knight duty for his king is on higher place than his personal felling towards person with crown. its not a jedi and sith guys

Unfortunately, in this game we dont have attributes for caring for your own men. Many times i lose chivalry points just because i fight in night to avoid artillery fire from enemy's secondary army and i get a cunning vice just because i dont want my men to die being hit by flying cow.

**Mete Han** · 08-04-2007, 09:35

If you ignore the missions given by the counsel of nobles for a very long time, would that contribute to the treachery of the noble?

**Didz** · 08-04-2007, 10:02

@Icek
Remember the relations between king of jerusalem and leader of templars in kingdom of heaven movie.

Its always a mistake to use a movie as an example of what is realistic.

Apart from that I think you make a valid point, human nature being what it is a good person is usually far more tolerant of the shortcomings of others than a bad one.