The Punishment for those men un-manly enough to abandon their kids.

[Incongruous]

Ok, so Goof started a thread about one half of the affair. Now for the other, just for balance.
I am not creating this thread as a p-take, I am seriuosly concerned by some of the submissions in that thread. Death penalty talk always makes by skin crawl.
So, I am not allowing a poll, simply leaving this open to variuos member's interpretations.

So, a man knocks a girls up, and the bounder ups and leaves her.
What coarse of action do you believe his actions to condone?

[HoreTore]

Nothing more than child support...

[Husar]

The death penalty.

Ok, not really. What HoreTore said, after all he didn't kill anyone in the process I hope.

[KukriKhan]

-Child support until the kid is 20.

-Health insurance coverage for the Mom throughout the pregnancy + 1 year.

-Purchase and insure the kid's first car.

-Tiny tattoo'd letter "B" on the right hand, to warn other women that, at least once, he's been a 'bounder'.

OK, I could live without the last one.

[Sigurd]

Public spanking by an old Midwife


...

uh.. Dejavu?

[Odin]

Ok, so Goof started a thread about one half of the affair. Now for the other, just for balance.
I am not creating this thread as a p-take, I am seriuosly concerned by some of the submissions in that thread. Death penalty talk always makes by skin crawl.
So, I am not allowing a poll, simply leaving this open to variuos member's interpretations.

So, a man knocks a girls up, and the bounder ups and leaves her.
What coarse of action do you believe his actions to condone?

Is it premeditated like abortion? If yes, then a severe penalty such as 18 years in jail until the minor is able to attain adult status in terms of law, and the mother is made whole by way of financial compensation via a valuation of her outlay for the care of the child.

The father should have his assets liquidated in order to finance the upbringing of the child, and in the case of no assets a work program that adds value to his incarceration that compensates the tax payer and the mother.

[Husar]

Why ruin his life is he is a lot more useful when he works for his money outside of a prison? It's not like he directly harmed anyone in the process, except for the woman, but she gets the money as compensation. And maybe he harmed the kid a bit because it lacks a father, but you could add that to the money the father pays.

[Odin]

Why ruin his life is he is a lot more useful when he works for his money outside of a prison?

since you didnt quote anyone, and your question pertains to prison I will answer.

If its premeditated, like abortion is, its a crime (perhaps not legally now, but Bopa is asking for opinion). A man that leaves a child behind to be cared for by the mother knowingly should be penalized and the penalty should be severe as both a deterrant, and a means by which to obtain remuneration for those harmed.

[English assassin]

A damn good thrashing from her father and brothers.

I also like the tattoo idea.

[Ja'chyra]

Lol at the tattoo idea, I take that goes both ways so a woman would get one if she ditched the father?

Support for the child until 16 and are able to support themselves or until the mother remarries or has a long term, live in partner. I say this as if the mother has a long term partner then they've obviously made a commiment and that commitment should include any children either of them may have.

I also think the support should be set at a reasonable level, I don't believe some skank from the local nightclub should be able to get more just cos she bedded a rich man, the money is for the child, not the mother.

[Don Corleone]

What if she has no fathers or brothers?

I think Odin and Husar both have a point. Instead of locking him in prison, where he can't earn any money, I say he joins the National Service Corps (King Corleone would be instituting that for all welfare indigents) where he actually works constantly on public works projects. His wages would be garnished and sent to the woman. He would also be sterilized and would be required to maintain electronic monitoring.

I know this is a huge departure from what we currently do, but you have to understand, in my mind, this really does rank right up there with murder. Of all the arguments radical feminists make against the male-oriented society, this one rings the most true. The fact that abandoning one's children is not a crime if you're a male (but is if you're a female) is abhorrent to me.

I like the tatoo idea too, but my forced-vasectomy would remove the need for it.

[Ja'chyra]

What if she has no fathers or brothers?

I think Odin and Husar both have a point. Instead of locking him in prison, where he can't earn any money, I say he joins the National Service Corps (King Corleone would be instituting that for all welfare indigents) where he actually works constantly on public works projects. His wages would be garnished and sent to the woman. He would also be sterilized and would be required to maintain electronic monitoring.

I know this is a huge departure from what we currently do, but you have to understand, in my mind, this really does rank right up there with murder. Of all the arguments radical feminists make against the male-oriented society, this one rings the most true. The fact that abandoning one's children is not a crime if you're a male (but is if you're a female) is abhorrent to me.

I like the tatoo idea too, but my forced-vasectomy would remove the need for it.

What do you mean by abandoning? If the father pays support is that still abandoning or would not staying with the mother for any reason at all be abandoning?

[Don Corleone]

What do you mean by abandoning? If the father pays support is that still abandoning or would not staying with the mother for any reason at all be abandoning?

Not paying support. One would hope any man with a soul would want to actually interact and visit with his own children, but that's a little tough to enforce, and frankly, if he really doesn't want to see them, perhaps the kids are better off without him.

But I don't just mean regular support. When (not if) emergencies involving the kids arise, he should bear an equal portion of the financial responsibility.

And I don't think child support should end just because your children's mother has entered into a new relationship. They're your kids, not his (or hers, as the case may be). You shouldn't have to pay alimony any more, but I don't think too much of that goes on anymore.

[Husar]

Wow Don, sterilizing him is a bit harsh, the kid may not have a father but some kids would happily trade their dad for 1000$ a month anyway(me not included, but there are other people).

Also keep in mind that a father who does not abandon his family but is almost never at home and doesn't really spend time with them gets no punishment either. Would you introduce compulsory family time of at least 10 hours per week for dads and have it checked by social workers or what?

I still think they should just pay a lot of money, maybe even more than a child costs. That gets rid of the economical reasons for abandoning(like wanting more time, money and fun for himself) the family and it is also a punishment for him since staying with his family would be a lot cheaper. He could keep his job but if he couldn't pay he should do compulsory work for the community or whatever since he needs to pay for the kid.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

The fact that abandoning one's children is not a crime if you're a male (but is if you're a female) is abhorrent to me.

Erm, this isn't really true is it? You can get the child adopted, or you can skip out on the father. neither of those are crimes-well, the second isn't any more than it would be the other way around. Plus, you can have an abortion in the first place.

[Don Corleone]

Erm, this isn't really true is it? You can get the child adopted, or you can skip out on the father. neither of those are crimes-well, the second isn't any more than it would be the other way around. Plus, you can have an abortion in the first place.

If a guy wakes up one day and decides to skip town and his wife and kids, no further checks coming, he's not violating any laws.

If the woman turns around and abandons her kids, she's up on child abandonment charges.

Now,you can argue that the woman could have theoretically left first. Yes, in theory she'd be free to do it and the man would be on the hook. But in practice, it almost never works that way. But I'm open to that. If women decide to start skipping out on their families and leave their husbands with all the financial and child-rearing burden, then they ought to go through the same sort of punishment.

The sterilization solution is to prevent this from becoming a chronic problem. I don't know how it is in Europe, but in America, there's an element to many of the poorer sub-cultures that fathering children and abandoning them is a 'macho' thing to do. I believe sterilization would end this problem.

And Husar, as I said, I'm talking about financial support. But that also includes compensating the mother for time that you're NOT there taking care of your kids. I would presume a workaholic Dad would be sharing his paycheck with his wife, and SHOULD be taking care of the kids when he is home to give his wife a break. But we're talking about guys who listened to "Freebird" one too many times here, just decide one day to pack up and start over, doing whatever they feel like.

[HoreTore]

-Purchase and insure the kid's first car.

What the hell? That's something the brat should be able to do on his own, isn't it?

[Don Corleone]

What the hell? That's something the brat should be able to do on his own, isn't it?

Somebody ought to check the temperature in Hades..... HoreTore and I finally agree on something.

[Beirut]

The punishment?

Driving from your crappy apartment to go pick up your kids at a nicer house than you ever had with them and stumbling over the chainsaw left at the front door by the guy who lives there and outweighs you by fifty-pounds and who is always standing right beside your ex-woman, the one you used to yell at but curiously never do any more, the same woman who looks much happier than she ever was with you.

[Devastatin Dave]

Genital removal and branding...

[Incongruous]

Genital removal and branding...

Ouch.

I rather like the tattoo idea.
I also agree with hussar, that the father would be much more productive outside prison. In a Don Corleone style public services unit. But without the err, well the nasty bit.

[Tristuskhan]

The punishment?

Driving from your crappy apartment to go pick up your kids at a nicer house than you ever had with them and stumbling over the chainsaw left at the front door by the guy who lives there and outweighs you by fifty-pounds and who is always standing right beside your ex-woman, the one you used to yell at but curiously never do any more, the same woman who looks much happier than she ever was with you.

Beirut, you point it with a needle.... Seems that working in forestry stuff makes you wise! I'm proud, really proud to be from the same world!

[Innocentius]

Why should the man be punished at all? Why bother?

[Uesugi Kenshin]

The punishment?

Driving from your crappy apartment to go pick up your kids at a nicer house than you ever had with them and stumbling over the chainsaw left at the front door by the guy who lives there and outweighs you by fifty-pounds and who is always standing right beside your ex-woman, the one you used to yell at but curiously never do any more, the same woman who looks much happier than she ever was with you.

Beirut you are a cruel cruel man. That being said he could very well deserve it.

[Papewaio]

The punishment?

Driving from your crappy apartment to go pick up your kids at a nicer house than you ever had with them and stumbling over the chainsaw left at the front door by the guy who lives there and outweighs you by fifty-pounds and who is always standing right beside your ex-woman, the one you used to yell at but curiously never do any more, the same woman who looks much happier than she ever was with you.

A true mans man



And a ladies man too

A knight with shining chainsaw... methinks you won't have troubles when the zombie octasquids from outer space attack.

[KukriKhan]

What the hell? That's something the brat should be able to do on his own, isn't it?

Sure, just like I did. But for the abandoned brat, it's compensation for alienation of affection (of a male parental unit).

And I should have added: 2 years of post-high school education financing (the kid has to finish high school to get that, but 'dear, departed Daddy' should help give the kid a leg up in the economy; the kid/Mom can figure out the other 2 years worth of uni financing).

So, with my plan, one night of sin = about 20 years of payment. (+ the tattoo). Assuming the original abandoner was about 20 himself, hey, he's got another 40 years to do his own thing.

[Csargo]

I agree with Kukri.

[HoreTore]

Somebody ought to check the temperature in Hades..... HoreTore and I finally agree on something.

What do I see? Is that peace in the middle east?

[Beirut]

Beirut you are a cruel cruel man. That being said he could very well deserve it.

Oh, but he does, he does. And I can only hope the same thing happens to him in the other city where he made another kid and left that one as well after he dumped the two he had here.

I've got zero sympathy for the idiot. None. Nada. He deserves everything he gets. I particularly enjoy it when he bring them home late at night and I welcome my girls home loudly, then close the door, lock it, and turn off the outside light while he's right on the other side of it.

My God but that feels good.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Oh, but he does, he does. And I can only hope the same thing happens to him in the other city where he made another kid and left that one as well after he dumped the two he had here.

I've got zero sympathy for the idiot. None. Nada. He deserves everything he gets. I particularly enjoy it when he bring them home late at night and I welcome my girls home loudly, then close the door, lock it, and turn off the outside light while he's right on the other side of it.

My God but that feels good.

Yeah he definitely deserves that. I bet I'd do exactly the same thing, with at least as much enthusiasm.