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  1. #1

    Default Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    The US auto industry(GM, Ford, Chrysler) has been suffering lately, and according to some, it is close to the brink of collapse.

    Mercedes(Daimler) was unable to make Chrysler profitable and has sold it to private interests and both GM and Ford are sinking in astronomical debt. Both have new CEOs who are trying to turn things around.

    So what do you think? A temporary downturn or the loss of the big 2.5?


    Here is some perspective from www.thetruthaboutcars.com .

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    General Motors Death Watch 141: No Respite in Sight
    By Robert Farago
    August 1st, 2007 418 Views

    In the second financial quarter, General Motors made $891m. The General's camp followers have been delighted with the slim not to say two percent profit. Meanwhile, GM North America (GMNA) lost $39m. The General has been almost universally commended for this fact, as it compares with a $3.95b loss in ’06. Supposedly, the division's move “close to profitability” indicates that management has stopped the rot, as a prelude to rebuilding a framework for success. But lessening losses is not the same as making money, especially when you need money.

    And make no mistake about it: GMNA needs LOTS of money. It needs tens of billions of dollars to eliminate the mountain of debt and future obligations the company incurred in the downsizing process. Union buyouts, plant closures, pay-offs to former parts maker Delphi, the upcoming Wall Street requisite United Auto Workers pay-off, and more. Again, GMNA ain’t making it. Literally and figuratively.

    At best, GM CEO Rick Wagoner’s $9b worth of operational cuts have brought the automaker's U.S. expenditures in line with its income. That’s fine, if you assume that income will increase from here on out and expenditure won’t. Both of which are false assumptions.

    Next financial quarter, GMNA will shell-out $1b in capital expenditures. Annual plant closures and scheduled production cutbacks will also take their toll on revenues. More critically, if the two-month sales drop (July down 18.5%) is any indication, The General will continue to shed market share in [what analysts predict will be] a contracting market. Do the math. GMNA is about to make less money selling fewer vehicles.

    What then? Rabid Rick has two choices. He can cut even more capacity from the system, continuing GM's death spiral. Or he can instruct his troops to cut prices to move the moribund metal, further eroding his employer’s too-slim profit margins. Which are already crumbling under direct assault from Toyota et al.

    On Saturday, GM announced zero percent financing for up to 60 months on crew cab and extended cab Silverado pickup trucks. The move will wipe-off some $2500 - $3000 off their margins, halving GM's per truck profits. This after cutting back on Silverado production by 10 percent. And truck inventories continue to rise.

    Once again, still, GMNA’s future depends on selling a lot of something that makes the company a lot of money; something other than what they’re already trying to sell. Now that GM’s new pickup trucks have failed to generate the anticipated turnaround bucks, GMNA must pin its hopes on the new Pontiac G8, Cadillac CTS, Saturn Astra and Chevrolet Malibu.

    The General is only planning on importing, at best, 30k to 50k Aussie-built G8s for beleaguered Pontiac/GMC/Buick dealers. The Cadillac CTS has sold just 24k units this year. Even if the new, spizzarkle-prowed model doubles that total, it’s still a drop in an ocean of red ink. The Saturn is imported from Europe at a loss. Which leaves the hopes of a company resting squarely on the shoulders of the new Chevrolet Malibu.

    So far this year, GM sold 60k Malibus (many of which were discounted to fleets). In the same time period, Toyota sold 212k Camrys and Honda flogged 180k Accords (hardly any of which sailed with the fleets). If GM thinks it’s going to slay the competition with the new model– whose form and greasy bits are not a million miles away from the slow-selling Saturn Aura– it’s sorely mistaken. Even if the Malibu is significantly better than the Camry and Accord (also set for a refresh), conquest sales will be like pulling teeth. The demand for an alternative simply doesn’t exist.

    All of which leaves GM where it is now: depending on sales abroad to generate enough cash for the corporate mothership to stay afloat. This quarter, 58 percent of GM’s revenue originated overseas. That’s all fine and dandy (especially if you’re a United Auto Workers’ negotiator), but what happens if GM’s foreign operations go sour? Amid all the jubilation over GM’s foreign-sourced profits, there are signs of struggle and danger.

    According to GM’s number, their Asia Pacific market share is decreasing– in an expanding market. GM Brazil has hit a production capacity wall. And Shanghai Automotive’s hook-up with countryman Nanjing Motors suggests The People’s Republic of China wants the lion’s share of their domestic market for themselves. And last but not least, the lean, mean, lean production machine known as Toyota is beginning to turn its attention to these ripe pickings– which could turn moldy in the face of an international economic downturn.

    In short, GM’s overseas profits are not guaranteed; whereas ongoing and increasing U.S. losses are a sure bet. On balance, the automaker isn’t. Even if the rest of world continues to make enough cash to subsidize GMNA, we’re heading towards the point where GM’s Board of Bystanders must contemplate declaring GMNA bankrupt to save the corporate mothership.

  2. #2
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    Let's face it: the japs make the best cars. The US ones are crap.

    Although the Korean-made chevrolets are quite nice... Well, at least the Nubira...
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  3. #3
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    Were America and these are hallmark compaines. We will find a way. We always have and always will. not going to let the losers of WWII make me drive there cars.
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    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    As HoreTore said, the US makes rather shabby cars. Id much rather prefer I nic Jap import. But I can't see the BIG companies going down any time soon.

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South
    Were America and these are hallmark compaines. We will find a way. We always have and always will. not going to let the losers of WWII make me drive there cars.
    Unfortunately, these companies have abused their patriotic edge for far too long.

    When Japan first invaded, the anti-imperial attitude was thick. Americans aren't stupid however, and while buying a slightly less reliable American product would be acceptable to millions, the crap Detroit has put out over the last 30 years would make John Wayne trade his whiskey for saki. Not to mention the Germans and Koreans do it better as well.

    Despite Texas, GM and Ford cannot exist on pickup and SUV sales alone, not that Toyota isn't giving them a run in those sectors as well. They are deliberately selling Tundras for rock bottom to undercut the US's last profitable market.

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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    Well....
    Ford and GM did post a profit, so it indicates an up-turn in recent events.
    If GM and/or Ford find the edge of the tide, they can get profit. Especially the renewable-energy cars. They just have to find the cheapest, most available fuel source *cough hydrogen cough* that everyone can use.
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    Vermonter and Seperatist Member Uesugi Kenshin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    I can't see the US auto industry ceasing to exist, and I don't think it's very likely.

    That being said the first car that I buy will probably be a Subaru. I can't see much of an alternative to them where I live, and since every other Vermonter who doesn't drive a truck drives a Subaru I should be able to find a used one that isn't too expensive.
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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    Toyota utes are what were used in virtually every minesite I went to when I was working... light and reliable.

    What I would like to see is a breakdown of who owns these companies... sure a company that is branded as US, could in fact be what 40% foreign owned... likewise a few of the foreign companies could be 40% American owned... So I don't see it as a US vs Rest... its where the investors choose to invest.
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    Jillian & Allison's Daddy Senior Member Don Corleone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    Can it? Sure. But it won't. There's no one person to blame over here, the whole industry is crooked as a dog's hind leg. Unions demanding guys get $60/hour to sit and read newspapers and smoke cigarettes while they're "downsized", executives getting a $5,000,000 grant of post-dated options... it's from top to bottom.

    American car industries could theoretically start making the hard decisions and start making better cars. They cost more to make and they'll recognize less of a profit, so most likely they won't. Maybe after they've been knocked down a few more pegs, they'll turn it around.
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    Senior Member Senior Member Yeti Sports 1.5 Champion, Snowboard Slalom Champion, Monkey Jump Champion, Mosquito Kill Champion Csargo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
    I can't see the US auto industry ceasing to exist, and I don't think it's very likely.

    That being said the first car that I buy will probably be a Subaru. I can't see much of an alternative to them where I live, and since every other Vermonter who doesn't drive a truck drives a Subaru I should be able to find a used one that isn't too expensive.
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  11. #11
    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can the US Auto Industry Survive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshal Murat
    *cough hydrogen cough*
    *cough* hydrogen isn't practical for cars *cough*
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