Pontic, Armenian legionaries

**Sarkiss** · 08-02-2007, 13:20

i've never played EB reaching beyond 200 BC, so my question is whether Pontus and Hayastan get legionaries after Marian reform in Rome? the way it works in vanilla and RTR.
thanks

**Lovejoy** · 08-02-2007, 13:24

Nope! But Hay gets "Mardig Sooseramartik (Armenian Medium Infantry)" which pretty much fights as "legionaries".

Read more about them as well as Pontos diffrent units here:
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/fac...dan_units.html

**Foot** · 08-02-2007, 13:29

If you can offer us any evidence that Hayasdan emulated Roman methods of fighting (beyond the natural similarities of close-order, med/heavy inf fighting with javs and swords) I see no reason to speculate as to their existence. And Roman writers without specialist knowledge of military technology and tactics writing outside of the time-period do not count.

Foot

**Sarkiss** · 08-02-2007, 13:34

Originally Posted by Foot

If you can offer us any evidence that Hayasdan emulated Roman methods of fighting (beyond the natural similarities of close-order, med/heavy inf fighting with javs and swords) I see no reason to speculate as to their existence. And Roman writers without specialist knowledge of military technology and tactics writing outside of the time-period do not count.

Foot

i was just about to quote them writers.
i partially agree regarding Armenia, but what about Pontus? it is known that Mithridates had italian officers (some send by Sertorius from Spain) that trained his army to fight in Roman fashion.

**Foot** · 08-02-2007, 13:39

Originally Posted by Sarkiss

i was just about to quote them writers.
i partially agree regarding Armenia, but what about Pontus? it is known that Mithridates had italian officers (some send by Sertorius from Spain) that trained his army to fight in Roman fashion.

And? Training to fight as disciplined, close-order infantry hardly equates to having imitation legions. Pontos was far more influenced by the Hellenistic world, no one goes on about Pontos having imitation hoplites. Movement of technology and tactics in military is far more fluid than the Romans would like us to believe. Any reference to imitation legionnaires in a Pontic army is probably referring to a Thorakitai unit, which Pontos will get.

Foot

**Sarkiss** · 08-02-2007, 13:31

Originally Posted by Lovejoy

Nope! But Hay gets "Mardig Sooseramartik (Armenian Medium Infantry)" which pretty much fights as "legionaries".

Read more about them as well as Pontos diffrent units here:
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/fac...dan_units.html

thanks.
Armenians look like legioneries but shouldnt Pontus (and Armenia in its turn) get a "proper" imitation legionaries after sometime after encounter with Rome? just to reflect the historical facts.

**Foot** · 08-02-2007, 13:35

Originally Posted by Sarkiss

thanks.
Armenians look like legioneries but shouldnt Pontus (and Armenia in its turn) get a "proper" imitation legionaries after sometime after encounter with Rome? just to reflect the historical facts.

Show me evidence that they did have imitation legions and I will get that done. Otherwise, show a bit more respect to those cultures who were debased by Roman misunderstanding and propaganda.

Damn them and their literature!

Foot

**Sarkiss** · 08-02-2007, 13:42

Originally Posted by Foot

Show me evidence that they did have imitation legions and I will get that done. Otherwise, show a bit more respect to those cultures who were debased by Roman misunderstanding and propaganda.

Damn them and their literature!

Foot

indeed, damn them!

what more respect can i show if i am a descendant of one of those very cultures

**Foot** · 08-02-2007, 14:02

Originally Posted by Sarkiss

indeed, damn them!

what more respect can i show if i am a descendant of one of those very cultures

Look further than roman authors. Armenia is a big black hole of information for this period, but their is evidence beyond the romans of Armenia's place in the world back then.

If you can get a hold of it, The Peoples of the Hills, by Burney and Lang is a great read. I even managed to get a signed first edition!

Redgate's "The Armenians" is also not too bad, and I'm a big fan of Chahin and his book "The Kingdom of Armenia". Only a critical appreciation of the roman texts (or any of the primary texts relating to that period) will give any worthy information on the subject. Also, try getting a hold of a copy of Movses Khorenats'i's book then you should definitely read that as well.

Information is poor, but it is out there. And most of the authors writing on Armenian history now are very critical of the primary roman and greek texts of the time.

Foot