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Thread: Flag Protocols

  1. #1
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Flag Protocols

    It isn't a final law yet, but has passed the US Senate:

    The Senate has passed legislation clarifying U.S. law to ensure that veterans and service members not in uniform can salute the flag.

    S 1877, sponsored by Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla., would address the ambiguity of current law, which states that veterans and service members not in uniform should place their hand over their hearts, without specifying whether they can or should salute the flag.

    “The salute is a form of honor and respect, representing pride in one’s military service,” Inhofe said. “Unfortunately, current U.S. law leaves confusion as to whether veterans and service members out of uniform can or should salute the flag.”

    Inhofe said he believes this is “an appropriate way to honor and recognize the 25 million veterans who have served in the military and remain as role models to others citizens. Those who are currently serving or have served in the military have earned this right, and their recognition will be an inspiration to others.”

    The House would have to agree to the legislation before it could become law.
    From Army Times.com

    After years in uniform, saluting the flag, I must admit I've 'felt funny' with the hand-over-heart thing, as a civilian/veteran. My right arm always twitches to render that snappy salute SGT Johnson taught me in '72, only to stop, mid-salute, and cover my left shirt pocket.

    So, what are the rules or traditions in your country? Do civilians honor/recognize your flag? How?

    How about active soldiers and veterans?
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  2. #2
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    We don't do the flag thing... we've got Ma'am. As for civilians honouring anything in our country? Not bloody likely I'm afraid.

    As for saluting, if out of uniform, no saluting. And that means complete uniform - no headdress, no salutey. I suppose in a suit, one should just stand around looking vaguely awkward...
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    Member Member Spetulhu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    I was told a soldier never salutes if their head is uncovered, but that doesn't seem to be the case with US servicemembers if films are to be believed. Soldiers in formation stand at attention if witnessing the flag being carried, hoisted or lowered. IIRC we never saluted the flag itself.

    Civilians or soldiers out of uniform don't salute anything. The polite thing to do is to stand up and watch the proceedings when the flag is hoisted or taken down.
    If you're fighting fair you've made a miscalculation.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Never saluted anything, as soldier or civilian. It feels....stupid.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  5. #5
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    In Australia, civilians watch, remember and respect.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
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  6. #6
    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Meh. Flags always seem overly patriotic outside a stadium.

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    Silent Ruler Member Dīn-Heru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    In uniform salute, in civilian clothes while in the army stand at attention, in formation the soldiers stand at attention while the officer salutes. In civilian life you are technically supposed to stop while it is being hoisted or lowered if memory serves me correctly, but I doubt many actually do so..

    And generally outside of the army as long as you don't act in extreme disrespect to the flag I doubt anybody really cares what you do when the flag is hoisted or lowered.
    Patience is the companion of wisdom.
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  8. #8
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by Dîn-Heru
    In uniform salute, in civilian clothes while in the army stand at attention, in formation the soldiers stand at attention while the officer salutes. In civilian life you are technically supposed to stop while it is being hoisted or lowered if memory serves me correctly, but I doubt many actually do so..

    And generally outside of the army as long as you don't act in extreme disrespect to the flag I doubt anybody really cares what you do when the flag is hoisted or lowered.
    Hah! Heggelia has no flag at all, and nobody salutes the flag at Rusta, not sure about Setermoen, but I don't think they do it there either.

    It's a navy thing, few cares about it in the army.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  9. #9
    Silent Ruler Member Dīn-Heru's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Well I was in the Guard, so we probably had it a bit stricter than the rest of the army in this matter, but I was talking about what the rules are, not whether or not it is actually being followed in every base..
    Patience is the companion of wisdom.
    --St. Augustine

  10. #10
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by Bopa the Magyar
    Meh. Flags always seem overly patriotic outside a stadium.


    I regularly "Heil Hitler" whenever the Pledge of Allegiance comes up. Tends to bring a few laughs the first few times.

    Yes yes respect and all, but isn't it terrible that all the patriots can do is wave the flag? There's symbolic gesture and there's feel-good propaganda. Oh, and there's substantial gesture that governments always try to avoid and peoples never care unless they're on the news, like that hospital nobody used to care about.

    [Sorry, Kukri /Thread Hijack]
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 08-05-2007 at 21:41.

  11. #11
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan
    It isn't a final law yet, but has passed the US Senate:



    From Army Times.com

    After years in uniform, saluting the flag, I must admit I've 'felt funny' with the hand-over-heart thing, as a civilian/veteran. My right arm always twitches to render that snappy salute SGT Johnson taught me in '72, only to stop, mid-salute, and cover my left shirt pocket.

    So, what are the rules or traditions in your country? Do civilians honor/recognize your flag? How?

    How about active soldiers and veterans?
    For us it's simple, no "lid" no salute.

    In formation officers salute everyone else stands at attention. More fun is the fact that when you greet an officer you must salute, so if the officer has just got off a bus, and is carrying a heavy hold all he has to put it down and salute you.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  12. #12
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
    More fun is the fact that when you greet an officer you must salute, so if the officer has just got off a bus, and is carrying a heavy hold all he has to put it down and salute you.
    Heh... I like doing this to my one-pip-wonder friends. One of whom now tells me to F-off whenever I look like I'm about to do the whole arm-wavey thing.
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  13. #13
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Meh, you know you can get arrested for not doing it, right? It's the Queen's Commision, failure to acknowledge it is tantamount to treason.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  14. #14
    Nobody Important Member Somebody Else's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    True that. But once a day is generally all that's required. And if either party is incorrectly turned out, there's no need.

    Heh, back when I started this TA malarkey, I used to take massive diversions to avoid officers. Either that, or, when indoors, I'd amble about with my ToS (don't ask, just don't) stuffed into a pocket or through a belt loop. Nowadays I quite gleefully wave at all and sundry.
    Don't have any aspirations - they're doomed to fail.

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  15. #15
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
    For us it's simple, no "lid" no salute.

    In formation officers salute everyone else stands at attention. More fun is the fact that when you greet an officer you must salute, so if the officer has just got off a bus, and is carrying a heavy hold all he has to put it down and salute you.
    Mischievous.

    Of course, in my day I had a batman to carry things. That's what soldiers are for. And second lieutenants, in a pinch (though they are too prone to drop things).
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
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  16. #16
    Speaker of Truth Senior Member Moros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Depens on the flag...
    If it's the belgian flag, they don't notice it.
    If it's a seperatist flag, yellow with black lion with black claws and black teeth, they all start respecting it.
    If it's the Flemish flag (RED CLAWS AND TONGUE), well the same would happen as with the racist one, only this never happens as everyone in Flanders seems to think that that speratist flag is the flag of flanders and for some reason they all have it.

    Idiots
    Last edited by Moros; 08-07-2007 at 15:08.

  17. #17
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan
    It isn't a final law yet, but has passed the US Senate:



    From Army Times.com

    After years in uniform, saluting the flag, I must admit I've 'felt funny' with the hand-over-heart thing, as a civilian/veteran. My right arm always twitches to render that snappy salute SGT Johnson taught me in '72, only to stop, mid-salute, and cover my left shirt pocket.

    So, what are the rules or traditions in your country? Do civilians honor/recognize your flag? How?

    How about active soldiers and veterans?
    I feel the same twitch now. i guess for folks that have never been in the military you wouldn't understand the almost instictive impulse to salute. I would like to be able to salute while I'm at the ball game or while watching a parade when Old Glory goes flapping by. Until then, I'll just stand straight as possble, hand over heart, and giving thanks for living in the greatest country in the world.
    RIP Tosa

  18. #18
    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Really, I don't see much reason in a law that decides whether veterans and such "can salute" their country's flag. If they are capable then they have the ability to: they can. Whether it's appropriate (whether they should), is it not a question to be answered by something else than the law? The "right to salute?" Is that really what they are discussing, those foolish lawmakers? If you are in the military and not in uniform, I would say by all means salute if you want to or have to. If you are a veteran and not in uniform, I would also say salute if you want to.
    Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
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  19. #19
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    Mischievous.

    Of course, in my day I had a batman to carry things. That's what soldiers are for. And second lieutenants, in a pinch (though they are too prone to drop things).
    Once we timed it so that six of us walked past the same officer one after the other, but seperately. He was a good sport thankfully.

    Somebody Else, once we were on a camp surrounded by RAF, all the WO's wear caps like the officers, we couldn't tell them apart, so we would all suddenly become very interested in the guttering when we saw a peek in the distance.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  20. #20
    Custom User Title Member zukenft's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Now I live in a country where the norm is to salute the national flag whenever it's hoisted, whoever you are...
    the idea of different ways to respect the flag is...

  21. #21
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by Spetulhu
    I was told a soldier never salutes if their head is uncovered, but that doesn't seem to be the case with US servicemembers if films are to be believed. Soldiers in formation stand at attention if witnessing the flag being carried, hoisted or lowered. IIRC we never saluted the flag itself.

    Civilians or soldiers out of uniform don't salute anything. The polite thing to do is to stand up and watch the proceedings when the flag is hoisted or taken down.
    That's the key bit for us Canucks. You never salute if not wearing headdress, so naturally, if you are out of uniform you will not salute. Nor do we do that silly (sorry, I don't mean to offend, but it does seem silly to me) hand over the heart thing. If a member of the military is out of uniform or has no headdress on and needs to pay compliments to a superior officer, he simply checks his arms to his sides and maintains the position of attention until acknowledged. Likewise, if he is present for the lowering or raising of the flag, he will come to attention and remain so until the flag has been lowered/raised.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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  22. #22
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    Quote Originally Posted by Somebody Else
    True that. But once a day is generally all that's required. And if either party is incorrectly turned out, there's no need.

    Heh, back when I started this TA malarkey, I used to take massive diversions to avoid officers. Either that, or, when indoors, I'd amble about with my ToS (don't ask, just don't) stuffed into a pocket or through a belt loop. Nowadays I quite gleefully wave at all and sundry.
    Highland regiment?

    This is what I wear (different cap badge though):

    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

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  23. #23
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    I don't get it either. Nor do I understand this "right to salute the flag" thing. Where I come from such things are duties bourn by servicemen, not "rites" awarded to them for their service.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  24. #24
    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Flag Protocols

    They should be allowed to salute and no law should be required herefor. He who invented the idea is to be punished for foolisness that is simply too great to comprehend.
    Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
    Emotion: you have it or it has you.

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    Pay heed to my story named The Thief in the Mead Hall.
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