Org Mobile Site
So, I'm nearing the mid/end game in my first campaign francais. I just built my first citadel and I'm a little puzzled about which French Cavalry to use. It seems that there are 3 high end Cavalry units that are pretty similar:
- French Nobles (recruited at ANY citadel)
- Chivalric Knights (need 2nd highest stables)
- Lancers (need highest stables)
IIRC correctly (I'm at work now without the game in front of me), they are all pretty close to identical. All 3 have the same attributes (combat bonuses, good stamina, good moral, etc), and the stats are identical between CKs and FNs. Lancers actually have 1 point lower defense but they don't have a shield, so I guess this is probably better vs. missles? (How else does shield vs. armour defense come into play?)
This leads me to conclude that I'd be better off to hold off on building stables until after my castles have maxed out armorers, ranges, and barracks. But maybe I've missed something -- one factor might be which level of armor can be upgraded.
Anyone have any thoughts on the differences between elite French Cavalry and their relative value on the battlefield?
- French Nobles (recruited at ANY citadel)
- Chivalric Knights (need 2nd highest stables)
- Lancers (need highest stables)
IIRC correctly (I'm at work now without the game in front of me), they are all pretty close to identical. All 3 have the same attributes (combat bonuses, good stamina, good moral, etc), and the stats are identical between CKs and FNs. Lancers actually have 1 point lower defense but they don't have a shield, so I guess this is probably better vs. missles? (How else does shield vs. armour defense come into play?)
This leads me to conclude that I'd be better off to hold off on building stables until after my castles have maxed out armorers, ranges, and barracks. But maybe I've missed something -- one factor might be which level of armor can be upgraded.
Anyone have any thoughts on the differences between elite French Cavalry and their relative value on the battlefield?
http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Cavalry
three different types of armor, clotch, chain mail,plate mail
three different types of armor, clotch, chain mail,plate mail
Originally Posted by icek:
three different types of armor, clotch, chain mail,plate mail
Which makes absolutely no difference, whatsoever. (Other than lookin' purty. ^_^)three different types of armor, clotch, chain mail,plate mail
I don't have a good answer to the question, but that's not it.
Do they armor types affect what upgrades are available for the unit. IIRC correctly, the armor factory provides "advanced plate" -- does this mean that Lancers are actually a unit that can benefit from the amor factory?
What I'm really looking for here, is anyone who can tell me if there is a practical difference on the battlefield between these 3 types of knights. Is there any reason to work up to Chivalric Knights or Lancers when French Nobles are already available?
What I'm really looking for here, is anyone who can tell me if there is a practical difference on the battlefield between these 3 types of knights. Is there any reason to work up to Chivalric Knights or Lancers when French Nobles are already available?
According to brandybarrel's FAUST (Faction And Unit Stat Tables), Noble and Chivalric knights are exactly the same, except Chivalric knights have a lower upkeep (250 instead of 320).
Lancers are exactly the same as Nobles, except that their defence is 11/5/0 instead of 8/5/4, and they get one armor upgrade at smith lvl 6, unlike Nobles and Chivalric, which get upgrades at lvl 4 and 5.
So, it seems the stats don't really point to any real difference whatsoever, except that Chivalric knights have a lower upkeep, and Lancers are more evenly armored.
Between Nobles and Chivalric knights, the choice is clear, assuming you have the proper stables. Lancers, in turn, are a very minor improvement, and their upkeep goes back up to 320.
Whee. ^_^
Lancers are exactly the same as Nobles, except that their defence is 11/5/0 instead of 8/5/4, and they get one armor upgrade at smith lvl 6, unlike Nobles and Chivalric, which get upgrades at lvl 4 and 5.
So, it seems the stats don't really point to any real difference whatsoever, except that Chivalric knights have a lower upkeep, and Lancers are more evenly armored.
Between Nobles and Chivalric knights, the choice is clear, assuming you have the proper stables. Lancers, in turn, are a very minor improvement, and their upkeep goes back up to 320.
Whee. ^_^
if all seems to be the same, i will choose the units that looks the coolest!
Must win with style !
Must win with style !
Originally Posted by khaos83_2000:
if all seems to be the same, i will choose the units that looks the coolest!
Must win with style !
Now that's exactly what I think! ^_^if all seems to be the same, i will choose the units that looks the coolest!
Must win with style !
Originally Posted by Rhedd:
Which makes absolutely no difference, whatsoever.
The reason why armoured horses are separated by barding is that I had a hunch that patch 1.03 will give them some differentiation. Based on Lusted's past and recent actions I believe this is the case.. It seems highly probable that horses with different barding will have different masses in Kingdoms and 1.03 a la LTC.Which makes absolutely no difference, whatsoever.
Originally Posted by Rhedd:
According to brandybarrel's FAUST
FAUST is known to contain errors. A good example is the fact that Lancers already have Advanced Plate and therefore cannot be uparmoured. In addition, FAUST lacks crucial information such as speed, environmental modifiers and availability.According to brandybarrel's FAUST
To answer the GP's question:
Noble Knights:
-Citadel: 3
Chivalric Knights:
-Earl's Stables: 4
--King's Stables: 6
Lancers:
-King's Stables: 4
Their entries in the EDU:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Now that you have all the relevant information, you can made a solid decision based on your particular needs.
My entire worldview is crushed by learning that FAUST has errors. ^_^
Well, seriously, that's kind of disturbing news. Guess I'll have to manually check my facts in the EDU, from now on, just to be sure.
I agree with you about the barding, by the way. I suspect that at some stage of development, the barding type made a difference, and it sounds like it might again in the near future. I hope it does.
Well, seriously, that's kind of disturbing news. Guess I'll have to manually check my facts in the EDU, from now on, just to be sure.
I agree with you about the barding, by the way. I suspect that at some stage of development, the barding type made a difference, and it sounds like it might again in the near future. I hope it does.
OK, thanks everyone for the detailed info. It looks like it's a better strategic option during the mid game of this campaign to work up to better spears, swords, and missles. Lancers will have to wait until I'm in the end game when I have a booming economy.
QQ though, what does 'separated by barding' mean? I read Lusted's post regarding the rebalancing for kingdoms, but I'm just not sure what the 'barding' term means.
QQ though, what does 'separated by barding' mean? I read Lusted's post regarding the rebalancing for kingdoms, but I'm just not sure what the 'barding' term means.
Barding is what the armour for a horse is called.
In M2TW there are different types, cloth (used by the Gendarmes and Feudal Knights, for example), cloth and chain mail (the Noble knights use that, I think) and plate (Lancers and Gothic Knights). Depending on the barding, the horses have a different mass rating, which affects how effective they are in a charge (the heavier the better, simple physics).
In M2TW there are different types, cloth (used by the Gendarmes and Feudal Knights, for example), cloth and chain mail (the Noble knights use that, I think) and plate (Lancers and Gothic Knights). Depending on the barding, the horses have a different mass rating, which affects how effective they are in a charge (the heavier the better, simple physics).
Originally Posted by Ciaran:
Barding is what the armour for a horse is called.
Depending on the barding, the horses have a different mass rating, which affects how effective they are in a charge (the heavier the better, simple physics).
Except that they don't.Barding is what the armour for a horse is called.
Depending on the barding, the horses have a different mass rating, which affects how effective they are in a charge (the heavier the better, simple physics).
You're right about what "barding" means, but at the moment, the type of barding a horse is equipped with makes NO difference to the unit.
It certainly should, and maybe it will in the near future, but as of patch 1.2, it doesn't.
As long as a horse has some armor (even cloth), it's the same as every other barded horse.
Originally Posted by :
As long as a horse has some armor (even cloth), it's the same as every other barded horse.
Are you sure this includes their moving speed ? As long as a horse has some armor (even cloth), it's the same as every other barded horse.
From my observations, Fast pony > pony > heavy horse > other mounts (i havent checked eastern armored, barded etc against each other).
Besides, the mass of a mounted unit is directly linked to the unit itself, not to the mount, or is there something i missed ?
What file contains the mount datas ?
Originally Posted by zerathule:
Are you sure this includes their moving speed ?
From my observations, Fast pony > pony > heavy horse > other mounts (i havent checked eastern armored, barded etc against each other).
Besides, the mass of a mounted unit is directly linked to the unit itself, not to the mount, or is there something i missed ?
What file contains the mount datas ?
Sounds like your observations are correct.Are you sure this includes their moving speed ?
From my observations, Fast pony > pony > heavy horse > other mounts (i havent checked eastern armored, barded etc against each other).
Besides, the mass of a mounted unit is directly linked to the unit itself, not to the mount, or is there something i missed ?
What file contains the mount datas ?
I was saying that between armored mounts, there's no difference whatsoever. So, speed-wise, fast pony > pony > heavy horse > barded horse = mailed horse = eastern armored horse = armored horse.
Same goes for mass, but in reverse.
The mount stats are in (surprise! ^_^) descr_mount.txt. However, their speeds aren't determined there. Darned if I know where they are determined.
I got my speed information from here: http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Cavalry
Originally Posted by Rhedd:
However, their speeds aren't determined there. Darned if I know where they are determined.
Most of the credit goes to CBR, dopp and R'as al Ghul. See this thread. I re-did CBR's tests to insure accuracy then converted the speeds to m/s.However, their speeds aren't determined there. Darned if I know where they are determined.
Originally Posted by Miracle:
Most of the credit goes to CBR, dopp and R'as al Ghul. See this thread. I re-did CBR's tests to insure accuracy then converted the speeds to m/s.
Ah. That's what I suspected. The speeds aren't actually in any file, and the speeds listed are empirical. Thanks!Most of the credit goes to CBR, dopp and R'as al Ghul. See this thread. I re-did CBR's tests to insure accuracy then converted the speeds to m/s.
IMHO the idea is that you can build them in various places in a crunch when you really need them. Ok this place has only Citadel so i'll build Chivalric, this place has level 4 stables so i'll build everything i can, this place has Guild so i'll build Templars, etc. and i can build relatively equal knights in any one of many differently built castles when the enemy shows up in that particular area.
The small stat differences are not going to make a difference on the battlefield, your tactics will.
The small stat differences are not going to make a difference on the battlefield, your tactics will.
Thread Ratings provided by
Thread Ratings (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO