Is there any way to make battles more strategically decisive?

[Zarax]

I guess I misinterpreted the historical events, I stand corrected.

[DeathEmperor]

Well if a thread was going to be hijacked by another topic it was very fortunate that it was this one (that is about the wars of Antiochus the Great). I'm glad that abou has posted quite a bit in here as well. I hold you with much respect as a fellow admirer of the Seleukids abou


Now regarding Magnesia I feel it gets overrated all too often as an overwhelming victory of the Romans over the Seleukids. The casualties, as abou pointed out, are also too often exaggerated on the Seleukid side and far too diminished on the Roman side. Antiochus had led a cavalry charge comprised of, from what is described in [I]The House of Seleucus: Volume 2[I], "Iranian cavalry" against the left flank of the Roman army. Most likely this cavalry force was comprised of the Kataphractoi and Agema heavy cavalry. The charge itself broke the Roman left and sent it into a rout that was closely pursued by Antiochus and his cavalry all the way to the Roman camp. Now the casualties of the Romans given by Livy as a little over 300 are far too low to reflect this, therefore I believe he chose to almost completely ignore this part of the battle and paint the Romans in the most seemingly invincible light.


After Magnesia and the end of the Roman/Seleukid War, and the treaty of Apamea Antiochus still ruled a large and powerful empire. True he had lost Asia Minor, but then again it was never truly absorbed into the empire even after the defeat of Acheus. The distant parts of the empire, specifically Armenia, Parthia, and Bactria, did rebel when news of Antiochus' defeat reached them, but these could've been brought back fairly easily under Seleukid control if Antiochus launched a second Eastern campaign. What was important was that Antiochus still held the core parts of the empire namely Syria, Babylonia, and Persia each of which had immense recruiting potential for the royal army and possessed great wealth and the potential for more in themselves. In addition to this he had added Cilicia and Coele-Syria to his realm and their potential riches and soldiers along with them.

Rome was hesitant at the prospect of a clash with the Seleukids before and even after their victorious war with them. They dreaded the near-mythical wealth and seemingly limitless manpower of the East in general, and despite constant exaggeration over the centuries the rumor of these resources were not completely unfounded and Antiochus alone was in a position to possess them. The Romans were reluctant, perhaps terrified, of going anywhere past the Taurus Mountain range even with the goding of their Greek allies most notably the Rhodians. If Antiochus had chosen to reconquer the East yet again, and perhaps go south and finish the Ptolemies off for good it is doubtful they would have tried to stop him.


On the whole it is easy to overlook the genius that was Antiochus the Great, and perhaps easier to accept that after their clash with the Romans the Seleukid Empire was broken, but if anyone did so they would be making a grave mistake. Antiochus III is perhaps one of the most brilliant, but underestimated military leaders of the Ancient World and his Empire was the only one that had access to resources that could outmatch Rome's. It is an unfortunate truth, that so many things throughout history have been distorted by either time or biased sources.

[Zarax]

Magnesia is a puzzle in many ways.
One of the misteries is why Anthiochius didn't employ Hannibal properly, using him as admiral instead of a general.
Between the two generals and the available resources there was enough potential to kick in a huge war.

There are some fantasy scenarios in a few games that represents Magnesia as Hannibals' revenge, pitting him against Scipio once more.
Ironically both great generals were absent from battle, one apparently mistrusted by the seleucids and the other one sick in camp.

[AntiochusIII]

A thread unto my own heart *looks at his screen name*

I ought to learn more about my internet namesake. The resources on the web are awfully inadequate -- holes that go by years and little in detail. Apart from this touted The Roman War of Antiochus the Great can anyone suggest me other resources? I'll soon be off to college and that is going to both be a boon and a downer, boon since I'd probably get access to a decent library, downer because I can't possibly afford those expensive academic books.

[grudzio]

In my opinion, Antiochos was probably tired. He was quite old by now and had been campaigning constantly since he ascended to the Seleukid throne. Only two people come even close to this: Alexander, who didn't live very long, and Caesar who took many months on a vacation sailing on the Nile with Kleopatra probably due to exhaustion. Antiochos was also aware of the what damage the four years of fighting with Achaios had caused to the region. In the end, he went with the Treaty of Apameia, which had its pros and cons for both sides and was a far more peaceful solution.

I think that Antiochos must have had serious financial problems. War wasn't cheap even for Seleucids. AFAIK when two ancient empires fought each other the first major battle was decisive because army upkeep was so high. One had to win and plunder enemy camp to pay the army. Looser was broke and had to sue for peace.

The Romans are another matter. They didn't pay for solders equipment (until Marian reforms of course) paid much less their soldiers so money wasn't that big problem for them as for other countries.

What is more Magnesia wasn't first defeat of Antiochos. He lost one or two battles trying to stop Romans in main Greece. So after Magnesia his army had very low morale, he had no money, as Abou says was tired and probably
he was afraid that after defeat at Magnesia some more energetic governors could think it is a good time to become independent. Unfortunatelly Seleucids Empire wasn't very stable.

[Pius Curus]

to Bovi

Where can I find this mod as you write?

"If you want battles to be more decisive, you can try the unofficial money/merc modifications, a lot of people are very satisfied with those."

Could you send me the prolink to this mod?

[bovi]

Take a look at the unofficial mods subforum. You won't have to search very long.

Edit: What's a prolink?

[Tellos Athenaios]

I suspect a "Prolink" should be read as "hyperlink" - "proxy" seems somewhat unlikely.

Apart from that: funny thing, reading. Really is.