Results 1 to 30 of 37

Thread: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hunting the Snark, a long way from Tipperary...
    Posts
    5,604

    Question China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    I'd be interested to read Orgahs' views on the not-so-subtle hints of the Chinese that they may be prepared to sell dollars to trigger a collapse in the US currency. I am no economist but I know there are students of that discipline among us.

    It seems to me that energy power and economic leverage are weapons that have transferred from the US to other powers and make it vulnerable - especially since the country has accrued so much debt recently. What can be done to reduce the risk and if desirable to do so, will those choices be palatable to the electorate?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    China threatens 'nuclear option' of dollar sales

    By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

    Last Updated: 1:41am BST 09/08/2007


    The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.

    Two officials at leading Communist Party bodies have given interviews in recent days warning - for the first time - that Beijing may use its $1.33 trillion (£658bn) of foreign reserves as a political weapon to counter pressure from the US Congress.

    Shifts in Chinese policy are often announced through key think tanks and academies.

    Described as China's "nuclear option" in the state media, such action could trigger a dollar crash at a time when the US currency is already breaking down through historic support levels.

    It would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession. It is estimated that China holds over $900bn in a mix of US bonds.

    Xia Bin, finance chief at the Development Research Centre (which has cabinet rank), kicked off what now appears to be government policy with a comment last week that Beijing's foreign reserves should be used as a "bargaining chip" in talks with the US.

    "Of course, China doesn't want any undesirable phenomenon in the global financial order," he added.

    He Fan, an official at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, went even further today, letting it be known that Beijing had the power to set off a dollar collapse if it choose to do so.

    "China has accumulated a large sum of US dollars. Such a big sum, of which a considerable portion is in US treasury bonds, contributes a great deal to maintaining the position of the dollar as a reserve currency. Russia, Switzerland, and several other countries have reduced the their dollar holdings.

    "China is unlikely to follow suit as long as the yuan's exchange rate is stable against the dollar. The Chinese central bank will be forced to sell dollars once the yuan appreciated dramatically, which might lead to a mass depreciation of the dollar," he told China Daily.

    The threats play into the presidential electoral campaign of Hillary Clinton, who has called for restrictive legislation to prevent America being "held hostage to economic decicions being made in Beijing, Shanghai, or Tokyo".

    She said foreign control over 44pc of the US national debt had left America acutely vulnerable.

    Simon Derrick, a currency strategist at the Bank of New York Mellon, said the comments were a message to the US Senate as Capitol Hill prepares legislation for the Autumn session.

    "The words are alarming and unambiguous. This carries a clear political threat and could have very serious consequences at a time when the credit markets are already afraid of contagion from the subprime troubles," he said.

    A bill drafted by a group of US senators, and backed by the Senate Finance Committee, calls for trade tariffs against Chinese goods as retaliation for alleged currency manipulation.

    The yuan has appreciated 9pc against the dollar over the last two years under a crawling peg but it has failed to halt the rise of China's trade surplus, which reached $26.9bn in June.

    Henry Paulson, the US Tresury Secretary, said any such sanctions would undermine American authority and "could trigger a global cycle of protectionist legislation".

    Mr Paulson is a China expert from his days as head of Goldman Sachs. He has opted for a softer form of diplomacy, but appeared to win few concession from Beijing on a unscheduled trip to China last week aimed at calming the waters.
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  2. #2
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    The dark side
    Posts
    5,383

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Interesting... Another good reason to pull out of Iraq, I guess.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 08-09-2007 at 13:58.
    Under construction...

    "In countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia and Norway, there is no separation of church and state." - HoreTore

  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member naut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    9,103

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Scary prospect.
    #Hillary4prism

    BD:TW

    Some piously affirm: "The truth is such and such. I know! I see!"
    And hold that everything depends upon having the “right” religion.
    But when one really knows, one has no need of religion. - Mahavyuha Sutra

    Freedom necessarily involves risk. - Alan Watts

  4. #4
    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Norge
    Posts
    6,877

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Are China in such a position that they don't need to buy anything using US dollars?
    If they decide to get rid of their $ what would they buy their coal for? This necessitates that

    1. They either have made new agreements with other suppliers that sell their stuff in other currencies.
    Or
    2. They are self sufficient on energy resources and other commodities that can be bought using dollars.

    The real threat would be that the Chinese will demand another currency for their goods. This would lead the buyers to get this currency and maybe make the shift to sell their goods in the same currency.

    I am not an economist, but I would gather that China needs supporters in this enterprise.
    I am guessing a new axis of evil?

    The US needs her supporters (those who sell their resources and goods in US dollars) to stay committed to the dollar, which traditionally are the big Oil and Gas nations.

    The only real threat to the US dollar would IMO be the Euro. If enough nations shift their trade to this currency, then others will be forced to follow. Then there will be an end to the US dollar and maybe the US as we know her today.
    Last edited by Sigurd; 08-09-2007 at 14:38.
    Status Emeritus

  5. #5
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Eye of the Hurricane (FL)
    Posts
    3,372

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Any attempt to crash the dollar would probably cause a global collapse.

    When the US Stock Market goes down precipitously, many other nations follow in her wake, going down. China needs us just as much as we need them, and that isn't going to change in the next couple years. It's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors as China tries to flex her muscle.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  6. #6
    Στωικισμός Member Bijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Η Γη / Κόλαση
    Posts
    1,844

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    It was I who recommended this course of action to China. It is the truth
    Emotion, passions, and desires are, thus peace is not.
    Emotion: you have it or it has you.

    ---

    Pay heed to my story named The Thief in the Mead Hall.
    No.

    ---

    Check out some of my music.

  7. #7
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Bijo
    It was I who recommended this course of action to China. It is the truth
    Well, which US companies ship their stuff to Europe?
    I want to buy some things once they're dirt cheap.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  8. #8
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,519
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
    Are China in such a position that they don't need to buy anything using US dollars?
    If they decide to get rid of their $ what would they buy their coal for? This necessitates that

    1. They either have made new agreements with other suppliers that sell their stuff in other currencies.
    Or
    2. They are self sufficient on energy resources and other commodities that can be bought using dollars.

    The real threat would be that the Chinese will demand another currency for their goods. This would lead the buyers to get this currency and maybe make the shift to sell their goods in the same currency.

    I am not an economist, but I would gather that China needs supporters in this enterprise.
    I am guessing a new axis of evil?

    The US needs her supporters (those who sell their resources and goods in US dollars) to stay committed to the dollar, which traditionally are the big Oil and Gas nations.

    The only real threat to the US dollar would IMO be the Euro. If enough nations shift their trade to this currency, then others will be forced to follow. Then there will be an end to the US dollar and maybe the US as we know her today.
    They can get their coal from Russia. They've done it before
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  9. #9
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Ratae Corieltauvorum
    Posts
    2,507

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    The Chinese government has begun a concerted campaign of economic threats against the United States, hinting that it may liquidate its vast holding of US treasuries if Washington imposes trade sanctions to force a yuan revaluation.
    In light of this quote it's probably a bit inflammatory to title the thread "China threatens..."

    China is making the point that it could retaliate, if necessary. It has been known for years that China owns most of the US govt's debt, though I don't really understand how or why the US allowed such a situation to arise. Of course, living off credit whilst earning less than you're spending might cover the cracks for a while, but it doesn't alter the facts that your economy is screwed. So long as the public see new Chevvies in the drive and have full tanks why worry about the way the economy's going?

    The article certainly makes it look as though the US is vulnerable on this one, but I quite agree with others that if the US dollar gets deflated big time, then everone will feel the shock.

    As for Clinton:

    The threats play into the presidential electoral campaign of Hillary Clinton, who has called for restrictive legislation to prevent America being "held hostage to economic decicions being made in Beijing, Shanghai, or Tokyo".
    Is a bit rich, isn't it, when for most of the past 50 years the rest of the world has been hostage to decisions taken in Washington and the Federal Reserve. Sauce, goose, gander etc etc....
    ANCIENT: TW

    A mod for Medieval:TW (with VI)

    Discussion forum thread

    Download A Game of Thrones Mod v1.4

  10. #10
    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Norge
    Posts
    6,877

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster
    They can get their coal from Russia. They've done it before
    This changes nothing... Russia wants US dollars for their coal. Coal as with oil is traded in US dollars world wide.
    Status Emeritus

  11. #11
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,519
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigurd Fafnesbane
    This changes nothing... Russia wants US dollars for their coal. Coal as with oil is traded in US dollars world wide.
    Yes. As long as it is a reliable currency. As soon as it ceases to be a reliable currency, which is what China is threatening to do, that might change. In fact, I'm quite convinced it will change.
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

  12. #12
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Moral High Grounds
    Posts
    9,278

    Default Re: China threatens to trigger dollar collapse

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost
    It would also cause a spike in US bond yields, hammering the US housing market and perhaps tipping the economy into recession. It is estimated that China holds over $900bn in a mix of US bonds.
    We can kill our housing market just fine without outside influence, thank you very much.
    The .Org's MTW Reference Guide Wiki - now taking comments, corrections, suggestions, and submissions

    If I werent playing games Id be killing small animals at a higher rate than I am now - SFTS
    Si je n'étais pas jouer à des jeux que je serais mort de petits animaux à un taux plus élevé que je suis maintenant - Louis VI The Fat

    "Why do you hate the extremely limited Spartan version of freedom?" - Lemur

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO