Stigmata

[Husar]

Have you ever heard of Job ?

God, not exactly the nicest guy around....

IIRC it wasn't God who did all the bad things to him, it was the devil, God just kinda removed his protection and let the devil do. Oh and in the end he gave Job more than what he had before, as a capitalist you should appreciate that.

[doc_bean]

IIRC it wasn't God who did all the bad things to him, it was the devil, God just kinda removed his protection and let the devil do. Oh and in the end he gave Job more than what he had before, as a capitalist you should appreciate that.

Well yes, but that doesn't mean God doesn't reward those with Stigmatas in the end or he doesn't make the faithful suffer.

"Punish those who oppose, test those who follow" seems to be His motto, in this life at least. God traditionally only rewards in/with the afterlife. Everything gained/taken away in this life is pretty meaningless compared to the afterlife. Navaros shouldn't be so quick to assume that God always makes only good things happen to his followers and bad things to those who oppose them, the Bible is full of events that contradict this, only in the afterlife the due 'reward' is given.

[Navaros]

I didn't mean to imply that "only good things happen to followers of God".

My statement was because God would have no reason to make a mockery of Jesus' death by inflicting wounds on sinful men that are similar to the wounds of Jesus. If God were to do that, that would be cheapening and defiling Jesus' death. Making it into a spectacle to be gawked at (like a KISS concert, for example) rather than an unfathomably meaningful occurence.

Are these things God would do? No. Are these things Satan, the enemy of God would do? Yes.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Okay, I'm just going to go right ahead and pick this apart.

I didn't mean to imply that "only good things happen to followers of God".

Are you saying then that God allows bad things to happen to good people? That is the old Epicuran arguement to disprove his existance.

My statement was because God would have no reason to make a mockery of Jesus' death by inflicting wounds on sinful men that are similar to the wounds of Jesus.

This assumes that the manner of Jesus death was special when in fact it was fairly mundane, the only odd thing being that he died quickly. In fact the Bible makes a point of the fact he was crucified with two ordinary men. His death was perhaps deliberately unextraordinary, he died just as any man dies.

You're also assuming that the men (or women) upon whom the Stigmata appears are sinful when they are usually seen to be unusually pieus. Further, as a Christian you are not supposed to pass judgement, Judge not lest ye be judged" and "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

If God were to do that, that would be cheapening and defiling Jesus' death. Making it into a spectacle to be gawked at (like a KISS concert, for example) rather than an unfathomably meaningful occurence.

Now you are assuming that God is seeking to provoke a reaction in others, rather than to test the afflicted. It might be said God isn't in to cheap tricks but in reality the New Testement is full of all sorts of banal divine actions. Water into Wine, for example.

Are these things God would do? No. Are these things Satan, the enemy of God would do? Yes.

Once again you presume to know the mind of God, and the mind of the Devil. I suggest you think seriously about that statement. Is the devil really the enemy of God? He only tests Job because God allows him to. God is all powerful and Good, so if he allows the Devil to exist surely the Devil serves some purpose.

You can carry the arguement further. If God made Lucifer, and he was the brightest of all his angels then God made him perfect and if he was perfect he could not have rebelled against God because he would not have been vain. If he rebelled against God then it must have been something God forsore because God tells us he is all seeing and all knowing.