A question for Christians.

[doc_bean]

FYI: Limbo has never been officially accepted by the Roman Catholic Church.

Then why the recent need to revoke the idea of limbo ? Was it just something done against a popular (mis)conception ?

I know in Dante's time limbo wasn't officially accepted, but the idea was at least 'tolerated', seeing as he was allowed to publish.

[Navaros]

I believe there is a loophole in the Bible whereby according to the Bible, those who have never heard the name of Christ are not held to the standards of the Bible, therefore do not go to Hell. They do indeed get a free pass to Heaven.

I'm not familiar with the chapter and verse of this loophole. It may have simply been engrained into my memory from what others told me when I asked this question as a youth. Or it may indeed by in the Bible as those I've asked the question to had told me it was.

It always did seem very ironic to me that the "good news" of Jesus may end up condemning people to Hell for having told them about it and thus revoking their free pass to Heaven at that moment once they've heard. This is an issue that has always troubled my understanding of Christianity.

[Sigurd]

"dfawtefergrhhdgs" ... Just to cover all bases.

[Lorenzo_H]

Never said hell was pretty cool.

Well I interpreted your "burn sinner burn sounds cool" as "hell sounds cool." Forgive me.

Anyway, one problem I have with the Catholic faith is that they think they are good enough to earn their way to heaven through their good works alone.

[Ignoramus]

They will go to Hell.

Some may argue that this is unjust, but think about it.

God is perfect and without sin. We are sinners who have rebelled against God. The penalty of sin is death. Therefore, God would be perfectly just in condemning us all to Hell. But because God is merciful, he sent his only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for the penalty of our sin. Those who believe in Jesus Christ to forgive their sins and repent of their sin will be saved.

This is also where the doctrine of predestination comes in. Not all Christian denominations accept this doctrine, in fact, it is mainly only the Reformed churches that do so. The doctrine of predestination states that people are so fallen in sin that only God can make us see the sinfulness in our lives and to seek Him. Simply put, God choose those who he will save before He created the universe.

[Sigurd]

Well I interpreted your "burn sinner burn sounds cool" as "hell sounds cool." Forgive me.

Anyway, one problem I have with the Catholic faith is that they think they are good enough to earn their way to heaven through their good works alone.

Now this poses for an interesting discussion that kind of tangent this one.
What are the necessary steps to be saved? The absolute minimum of necessary steps one need to take to enter the Christian heaven.

This should be equal for all. According to most denomination we are born as sinners through the original sin of Adam. That is why to my understanding there was a need of a saviour.

[shlin28]

So its all Adam's fault? We need a time machine to go back in time to kill him...

Anyway why should a person that had done nothing other than staying in a womb for 9 months suffer for something that a person who may or may not be their ancestor did which may or may not be bad?

Reminds of me of people who punished Jews for "killing" Jesus in the middle ages, when it is their ancestors who may or may not have done it. This brings up another interesting point, because the Jews were God's chosen people before JC, but when a small group of Jews, 100 or so, indirectly led to JC's death, their entire race is punished. Not good.

[Ignoramus]

We all inherit Adam's sinful nature. And yes, it is because of Adam and Eve's sin that we are sinful. Every single person on earth is descended from Adam. Thus we inherit his sinful nature. This is called original sin.

So none of us are perfect. Even the moment we are born we are sinners. So it's our sins we accountable for, not our ancestors.

[doc_bean]

This brings up another interesting point, because the Jews were God's chosen people before JC, but when a small group of Jews, 100 or so, indirectly led to JC's death, their entire race is punished. Not good.

They are not punished, you don't go to Hell for belonging to a certain race. They just need to accept JC as the Messiah, I'm sure quite a few turned into Christians over time. They certainly don't have it worse than the Indians or some other race with a different culture and religion.

In fact, I believe a passage in the Apocalypse mentions Jews converting to Christianity at the end of days. Part of the reason those wacko christians in DC like Israel so much...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I would say this is a question only God can actually answer, BUT accepting Jesus is usually the only way to go to heaven, the question then is whether there is anywhere else to go other than hell.

[HoreTore]

I would say this is a question only God can actually answer, BUT accepting Jesus is usually the only way to go to heaven, the question then is whether there is anywhere else to go other than hell.

I thought most christians nowadays reject the idea of hell?

[Divinus Arma]

"Non-Christians who seek God with a sincere heart and, moved by grace, try to do His will as they know it through the dictates of conscience can also be saved without water baptism; they are said to desire it implicitly."

According to who?

The Christian faith, be it Catholic or a reformed denomination, teaches that only by accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Personal Saviour can one be saved.

This is also where the doctrine of predestination comes in. Not all Christian denominations accept this doctrine, in fact, it is mainly only the Reformed churches that do so. The doctrine of predestination states that people are so fallen in sin that only God can make us see the sinfulness in our lives and to seek Him. Simply put, God choose those who he will save before He created the universe.

Why would God create something knowing that it would suffer eternally, to no fault of its own, because he selected them for eternal damnation?

That kind of goes against the idea of a just and loving God.


If Jesus Christ REALLY is our saviour, then it seems to me that whether we believe that he is or not is irrelevant. We do not need to believe in oxygen for us to breathe, but yet the truth remains so. If the truth is that
Jesus Christ died for our sins, then our belief is unnecessary. And that would lead me to believe.

[Xiahou]

According to who?

That's quoted from the Catholic Catechism.

The Christian faith, be it Catholic or a reformed denomination, teaches that only by accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Personal Saviour can one be saved.

Apparently not.

[The Spartan (Returns)]

*Skipping previous posts.

Aa a Roman Catholic,

I believe that people who never heard the gospel, go to purgatory for cleansing of the soul.

Then they go to heaven.

[shlin28]

Then whats the point of hell? Bad people could just go to the purgatory and wait for couple million years...

[The Spartan (Returns)]

Then whats the point of hell? Bad people could just go to the purgatory and wait for couple million years...

No, because the people who go to hell, have heard the gospel and had their chance.

[CountArach]

By that definition I am going to Hell... oh well.

So can someone explain to me what the Bible says actually occurs in Hell? Is it all fire and pain, as Hollywood as convinced us? And if so, how does one feel pain if one has no body - just a soul?

[Husar]

So can someone explain to me what the Bible says actually occurs in Hell? Is it all fire and pain, as Hollywood as convinced us? And if so, how does one feel pain if one has no body - just a soul?

It's distance from God, since every human needs God and depends on him, distance from God is supposedly the worst possible punishment. That's what I've been told, haven't really investigated it myself.
I think it's a very strong mental pain, maybe like the mental pain after being raped or lovesickness, only a lot stronger. And I'm not sure about the body part, the bible mentions that people in heaven get a perfect body IIRC.

[Divinus Arma]

That's quoted from the Catholic Catechism.

Apparently not.

Huh. Never heard that one before. Cool. I guess I'm off the hook.

[Divinus Arma]

It's distance from God, since every human needs God and depends on him, distance from God is supposedly the worst possible punishment.

That would be the worst thing possible. To be self aware, absent anything else.

[Zain]

I figure I should jump into this one... first of all by stating what I think of the topic and going from there.

I believe that one who has NEVER heard the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Creator God is allowed a free pass because it's not their fault they didn't accept God in the first place. I believe the believers themselves will be held accountable for that.

Just like a young child of 3 that dies in a car accident. Does that child go to hell because it's not old enough to make a decision or understand what's going on when it had gone to church every sunday with it's parents, but had never made a decision on it's own. The answer is no. All children under the age of accountability is innocent in God's eyes.

Thanks for having this discussion guys, it's a good one to discuss.