Where are the Stradiots?

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-10-2007, 23:07

I have played over 100 turns in my Venice campaign, with maximum level cities and castles. However, I still have not seen the Stradiot cavalry unit. Is this a bug that it is missing, or does it need some strange requirements to recuit?

Also, is there any reason why the Venetian Heavy Infantry appear less armoured than their Archer counterparts?

**BadGenome** · 08-10-2007, 23:21

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

I have played over 100 turns in my Venice campaign, with maximum level cities and castles. However, I still have not seen the Stradiot cavalry unit. Is this a bug that it is missing, or does it need some strange requirements to recuit?

Also, is there any reason why the Venetian Heavy Infantry appear less armoured than their Archer counterparts?

You have to build the King's Stables in order to recruit Stradioti.

And there is an armor bug, though it only affects the display IIRC. If you've unpacked your files, you can fix it by editing the export_descr_unit file so that the line reads:

armour_ug_models Venetian_Archers_ug1, Venetian_Archers

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-10-2007, 23:26

King's Stables for a light cavalry unit? I only wanted them because I heard they were one of few melee cavalry to have the "Fast Moving" attribute and so could catch fleeing enemy generals. Are they actually effective in melee?

**BadGenome** · 08-10-2007, 23:35

They're pretty sturdy for fast-moving cav. I've seen them hold their own for a time against generals' BGs in a brawl, and they're certainly good enough to catch and pin them down long enough for heavy cav to arrive if it comes to that.

**ReiseReise** · 08-10-2007, 23:39

Their strength is that they are fast moving and have excellent charge, so they can quickly get to the flanks and charge, retreat quickly and charge again. They are ok but not great in melee so they don't drop like flies, but that is not what they are meant for. They will lose melee against heavy knights but they are almost 50% faster so they can run away.

**Ars Moriendi** · 08-11-2007, 05:29

The building requirements for stradiots are in place to simulate their late appearance in history, rather than some high tech development. They are the lightest cavalry unit the Venetians get, having same or less armour than mounted crossbows or sergeants.
Their speed makes up for their lack of armour. Once I was able to build them, they always had a place in my armies and it wasn't just to catch fleeing generals (which they do just fine), but more importantly to annihilate enemy missile units. As Venice, I relied heavily on my Pavise Crossbows ability to decimate slow armoured targets, and I used those guys plenty. However, I met enemies like Hungary who built their stacks with at least one third pav xbows, so a shooting match would result in lots of casualties on my side. Charging the front with heavy cavalry only works 50% of the time, as their slow approach gives the enemy time to pull back its missile units and respond with spearmen, or at least shoot another close range volley at my knights. Stradiots are much better for this job, as they have more chances to catch the missile units and get less exposure to enemy fire.

**ataribaby** · 08-11-2007, 07:21

I'm at about the same stage in my Venetian campaign and I haven't got the stradiots either, mainly because the stable upgrades are so expensive. It's the first campaign I've made last long enough to see gunpowder so I'm focusing on guns and big ships.

To get them you need to build two 9,600 florin upgrades that take 6-8 turns each, and, as far as I remember, the first of those merely expands the feudal knight recruitment pool by two (whoop-de-doo!) or something similarly as disproportionately naff!

Still, I will get round to implement them as I've tested them in a custom battle and they're pretty impressive. I love fast-pony cavalry and these tick all the boxes, having a light lance charge and a secondary AP mace attack. Mixed with mounted crossbowmen, Venice can give any HA army a taste of its own medicine.

**Sun of Chersonesos** · 08-11-2007, 11:06

Originally Posted by BadGenome

They're pretty sturdy for fast-moving cav. I've seen them hold their own for a time against generals' BGs in a brawl, and they're certainly good enough to catch and pin them down long enough for heavy cav to arrive if it comes to that.

Well that's true now but before patch 1.2 they used to be almost amazing and they could beat a lot of knights in the late period. But since the patch the CA have fixed the light cavalry bug where lighter cav like Alans (Alan Light Cavalry) were more powerful and cheaper.

They used to be good in melee because they also have Armour Piercing so certainly before the patch they were absolutely amazing against knights.

Sun

**Per Ole** · 08-11-2007, 11:14

Seriusly, I don't get this... How can you *not* be filthy rich as the venetians?! Well of course if you got several full stacks just running around that's probably it, but normally I can afford even 4 stacks full of knights!

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-11-2007, 11:56

I have a pretty stupid reason for not being rich at the moment. Basically, I got excommunicated and had the Pope call a Crusade to Rome (my capital). Practically every Christian faction joined the Crusade against me, and my Apline forts were soon under serious assault. With a bit of luck I found the Pope hiding on an island somewhere, and had to offer him my whole treasury plus most of my turnly income (around 15,000F) for the next 20 turns. I only need to pay this tribute for about 7 more turns thankfully.

The reason I never built many stables before was that they are so expensive and didn't appear to do much more than add a couple of units to the Feudal Knights recruitment pool. Still, now I know about the Stradiots I'll get building those Stables, thanks for the advice everyone.

**ReiseReise** · 08-11-2007, 12:19

Patch 1.2 also hurt stradiots because IIRC it fixed the bug where shields were not used in melee. Stradiots don't have shields, knights do. Ouch.

LOL "I got excommunicated." What did you expect to happen when you attacked the Pope. If you send a diplomat to the pope right away you can usually ally with him, it will increase your rank with him giving you a better chance of getting cardinals and therefore a Pope from your faction. But better yet, he will favor you in wars with other catholics. Therefore if you are in a war with another Catholic, he will tell you both to cease hostilities, and he will excommunicate the other guy if they violate, but he will only decrease your pope-o-meter if you violate. Let the other guy strike first and get excommed, then its Crusade time baby! Crusade against your neighbor and you can easily put all your generals in it and get them massive chivalry and command benefits. Plus the Pope will like you EVEN MORE for doing a crusade. It is not hard to keep your pope-o-meter between 8-10 if you know what you are doing, and he is the only ally worth having.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-11-2007, 12:29

I knew I would get excommunicated for attacking the Pope. But he took Florence and I really wanted that city! This is the first campaign I've had armies anywhere in Italy, and so I thought that if I took Rome, the last Papal City, then the faction would be defeated, and the Pope would just be a little guy that appears in that scroll next to the diplomacy section. I ruled the College of Cardinals at this point with my Bishops, so expected to install a puppet-Pope who would love my faction. But instead the Pople appeared on a little island next to the city of Cagliari, hiding on the woods with a strong Rebel Muslim garrison right next to him. The Pope wouldn't reconcille me. As well as the money I gave him, I had to give him also Ajaccio, which I conquered, and Magdeburg, which I previously bartered from the HRE. So apparently if you destroy the Papal States the Pope will magically reappear is some Rebel province, even if it is mainly Muslim. I couldn't have guessed that was going to happen, give me a break.

**joe4iz** · 08-11-2007, 20:26

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

I knew I would get excommunicated for attacking the Pope. But he took Florence and I really wanted that city! This is the first campaign I've had armies anywhere in Italy, and so I thought that if I took Rome, the last Papal City, then the faction would be defeated, and the Pope would just be a little guy that appears in that scroll next to the diplomacy section. I ruled the College of Cardinals at this point with my Bishops, so expected to install a puppet-Pope who would love my faction. But instead the Pople appeared on a little island next to the city of Cagliari, hiding on the woods with a strong Rebel Muslim garrison right next to him. The Pope wouldn't reconcille me. As well as the money I gave him, I had to give him also Ajaccio, which I conquered, and Magdeburg, which I previously bartered from the HRE. So apparently if you destroy the Papal States the Pope will magically reappear is some Rebel province, even if it is mainly Muslim. I couldn't have guessed that was going to happen, give me a break.

Give him back Rome and all will be forgotten.

I have never attacked the Papal States as a Catholic faction except as HRE and then only just for the win.

Sometimes another Catholic faction will gift him a province. You should have given him a site in the Holy Land so that he could meet and greet the new neighbors when the Monguls and Timurs arrive.

I always got the Pope involved in my wars. He would wander down and just as he was passing Milan or Bologna, I would attack that faction. They get excommed and I now have close Crusade targets.

**ReiseReise** · 08-13-2007, 23:45

I actually did make a similar mistake, I knew that the pope didn't disappear like in MTW, but I expected to be automatically reconciled when the pope died, or a few turns later when my faction leader died, but I learned the hard way that doesn't happen if you are still at war with the Pope. You have to be at peace when Pope or your Faction leader dies to get reconciled, oops.