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Thread: EB Preview : Hayasdan Reforms
Greetings Europa Barbarorum fans.
Today is a very special preview for me. The following work has been long in the making, and for a faction dear to my heart. Hayasdan has always lacked that special something, a campaign that is given a definite goal to attain and that changes throughout.
Thus it is with great pleasure that I introduce:
As always there are so many different people to thank; Kull and Blacksnail for their advice on the coding, Atilius for advice on scripting and BozosLiveHere for traits. The PersianCataphract and Artavazd for their help with history and translations, Uranos for the lovely UI images used down the right-hand side, and Xprime and Stefan25 for the little treats at the end.
This preview is best seen at a resolution of 1280x1024, and may not look as cool on lower resolutions.
The Hayasdan Reforms : Introduction
The first Persian Empire was that of Cyrus the Great, the Achaemenid. With the fall of Darius III Codomannus, the Achaemenid Empire was no more.
The second Persian Empire was that of Arsaces I, and it was known as the Arsacid Empire, or the Parthian Empire. These Parthians, who were once nomads, carved out an empire that lasted twice as long as the Achaemenid Empire.
But the Arsacid kings were not inheritors of the Achaemenids by blood, but by tradition. The history of the Achaemenid Empire had been lost and was replaced with myth and tradition - the relief at Bisutun was already being wrongly attributed to the legendary Queen Semiramis by the 4th century BC.
There were, however, survivors of the old dynasty of the Achaemenids , who could claim lineage to Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes - and, more importantly, who had the power to do so.
The Orontid dynasty (Yervanduni) of Hayasdan were one such family. Descended from Orontes I (Yervand), satrap of the 13th satrapy, and then later the 10th as well, in the 4th century BC. Orontes I was reportedly of royal Bactrian blood, but had also been wed to the daughter of Artaxerxes II, Rhodogune.
Orontes' power and respect at the Persian Court was enough to have himself pardoned of treason when he led a satrapal revolt against the Persian King.
In 272 BC, the kingdom of Hayasdan, still beneath the rule of the Orontid dynasty, was not the homogeneous kingdom that would later mark its rise to power in the Caucasus. Whilst able to withstand the political pressure of Arche Seleukeia from within her mountain fortress, the disparate tribes of Hayasdan could not pose any threat beyond the confines of that self-same fortress.
But, perhaps, had these peoples of Hayasdan been united sooner, beneath one king, the star of that kingdom in the Caucasus would have risen before the Parthians could fall upon the Hellenic Empire and claim Persia for themselves. And with the might of the Caucasus behind them, perhaps just perhaps, the second Persian Empire might not have been called Arsacid - but Orontid!
The Pan-Caucasus Empire Reform
Hayasdan's position at the start of the game is tenuous. The only thing stopping the kings of Seleukos from marching into her lands is because the might of Arche Seleukeia is focused elsewhere. The kingdom is not united, and it will take a strong king to do so.
When Hayasdan begins now, she will start with a Type III government, and for the moment the higher level governments - Type I and Type II - will be unavailable to her. This represents the fractured and uncentralised government that must have characterised the early reigns of the first Yervanduni Kings. Hayasdan's populations are spread across the valleys and mountainsides of the Caucasus, and are impossible to travel between in winter, and difficult at most other times. It will take a strong hand and a firm grip to unite the tribes of Hayasdan and of the Caucasus beneath one strong and central rule.
This process, as represented in the game, is possible after important infrastructure is built:
Roads will be required to strengthen the pathways and passes over the mountains and between the valleys, so that even in winter the rule of one king can be felt by all.
Better markets will need to be set up, to help strengthen economic ties between the valleys and enrich the populace with foreign goods and the chance to sell their wares even further abroad.
A more urbanised population will also be important, a central authority is hindered not helped by a dispersed population; large population centres will focus authority and widen its influence.
And to guard these new population centres, town garrisons will need to be set up to protect the citizens of the kingdom from attack; only without fear can a people prosper and grow.
Once authority in the Kingdom of Hayasdan is achieved, once a Type I Government is built in Armavir, the authority of the Hai King will be unparalleled in the Caucasus. A Pan-Caucasus Empire would offer a powerful position from which to push into Anatolia or into the Arche Seleukeia itself.
This reform will allow the player to unite the Caucasus by building Type I governments in Hayasadan, Pokr Hayk, and Sophene; and by building Type II governments in Kartli, Egrisi, Aghvan, Adurbadegan, and Pontos Paralios.
Uniting the Caucasus beneath one crown will give the Hai Arkah the right to call himself a King of Kings!
The Orontid Empire Reform: Introduction
Historically, Hayasdan was never in a position to rebuild the Achaemenid Empire in her own image. Arche Seleukeia’s control over Persis, Elymais and Media was, for much of its early history, not pestered by internal dissent and instability.
This was largely thanks to the policy, begun by Alexander, to work with the local aristocracy and respect the native traditions. It was only the twin pressures of the Romans and the Parthians that began the inevitable dissolution of the Seleukid Empire.
By this time Hayasdan’s economy and military had become organised under the new king Artashes, whose successes in battle helped form Hayasdan into a homogenous kingdom. Had this transition happened under an earlier king, before the rise of Parthian power in the east, and had this new, more powerful kingdom been successful in expanding into the northern lands of Arche Seleukeia, then it is entirely possible that the second Persian Empire (counting the Achaemenid as the first) could have been Orontid (Yervanduni) and not Arsacid.
Could it have been possible? Could Hayasdan, with the weight of the Caucasus behind her, have forged Persia, Media and Mesopotamia once more into an Empire that spanned from the lands of Bactria to the lands of Syria, and - beyond?
When Hayasdan first moves into the lands of Mesopotamia, Syria and Media she will only be able to build Type III or Type IV governments. These represent the continuation of an Hellenic elite in the province and will allow the recruitment of soldiers armed and trained in the Hellenic style, alongside low-level eastern troops.
But if the Hai Arkah comes to Persis and Elymais, and the cities of Persepolis and Susa, as a conqueror and law-maker, then he may make a claim to the throne of the Achaemenid Empire.
The Persian Kingship is one shrouded in tradition and myth. The traits of a Persian King are marked upon the many reliefs throughout the old Achaemenid Kingdom.
He must be favoured by the gods, manifest in his success in battle. He must be a righter of wrongs, and bring peace and order to the land. He must proclaim himself to be of the Aryans, so that the people know that he is one of their own. His history must be one of hardship and toil as an ordinary man destined for great things, just as Cyrus and Arsaces were robbers according to legend. He must claim descent from past authority in Persia.
All these things paint the image of a just and mighty ruler, fit for the throne of Persia!
The Orontid Empire Reform: Processes
The process, as represented in game, is a complex one.
Firstly, the Hai Arkah must arrive in Persis with the blessings of Ahura Mazda, or Aramazd in the Armenian Pantheon. Great battles have been fought, and the enemies of good righteous people been vanquished; the cities of Mesopotamia, Media and Elymais must have been grasped from the iron rule of Arche Seleukeia.
The Hai Arkah must also have show his work by uniting the Caucasus Mountains beneath one king (see the Pan-Caucasus Empire Reform above).
These newly acquired provinces must also be placed under the rule of a suitable and loyal subject; a satrap of either Hellenic, Persian or Armenian stock - a Type III Government.
The people of Elymais and of Persis will be the first to welcome their new King with open arms.
The transition from a Type III Government to a Type II Government in Persis and Elymais follows the same path for all provinces in the Orontid Empire Reform area, so explaining it for one province explains it for all.
The first step is to build the policy building called Royal Administration, the precursor to a full-scale transition from a Type III Government to a Type II Government in the the province. In a perfect world the Satrapal system would need very little central
interference, but power corrupts and the
massive distances and decentralised authority of an Empire can mean that Satraps or local
governors may defy the Suzerain and King.
In the provinces within the Orontid Empire Reform zone a new policy building will now be available. The Conquerer Comes ... begins the process of removing the Hellenic settlers and ruling elite from the land and returning control to the old Persian clans and local rulers - who enjoyed power under the Achaemenid Empire - as well as introducing loyal Armenian clans. This process of political and social reform will take years and cause much unrest amongst the population.
A script will now check a set of conditions in other provinces (see map below), if the conditions return true then after a couple of turns it will
create the Expansion Precursor building in the province, which will allow the construction of a Type II Government.
The building of the Type II Government (after destroying the Type III and rebuilding the Government Precursor) is not the end of the transition, as the population are still not peaceful nor are the new powers in the province safely seated upon their thrones - the land is too unstable. What is required is the building of the military infrastructure to solidify the rule of the new Persian King.
The construction of the Town Barracks and Stables represents much more than a simple upgrading of the military infrastructure of a region, the time taken to build the MIC level up this high also represents the settling of the region under its new rulers and beneath the
crown of a new Persian King.
The final stage of this process is the removal of the penalties that represented the unrest and civil disorder resulting from the political and social reforms in the province. Now these changes are over (for the most part), the building, ... and Brings Peace and Order, can be built, which returns the penalties back to normal. Once this building is constructed the process can begin in the next tier of the reforms (see below).
The Orontid Empire Reforms are tiered, and the process is one of consolidation before expansion. Provinces within the reform zone are grouped into 3s and 4s and only once each province within the group has been fully reformed (by constructing the policy building ... and Brings Peace and Order) can the next group of provinces begin the process of being reformed. Also, all provinces in the tier must have started the process of
being reformed before the script will place the Expansion Precursor in any one of them.
In addition the centre of the reform zone are the two provinces Elymais and Persis. The reform tiers to the east and west are completely separate, and focusing on either of the directions to the detriment of the other is entirely possible. In other words, reforming provinces in the east would not require doing any reforms in the west and vice versa.
Tier 1: Persis, Elymais
Tier 2W: Media, Mesopotamia, Babylonia, Charax Spasinou
Tier 3W: Adiabene, Assyrie, Tadmor
Tier 4W: Syria, Syria Koile, Kilikia
Tier 2Ea: Hyrkania, Khoarene, Gabiene
Tier 2Eb: Gabiene, Karmania
Tier 3Ea: Astauene, Parthyaia, Aria
Tier 3Eb: Aria, Drangiane, Arachosia, Gedrosia
Tier 4E: Margiane, Baktria, Paropamisadai
In the Eastward Expansion, two of the tiers have been split up into Part A and Part B. The individual parts can be reformed separately, but both Part A and Part B must be reformed before the next tier can be reformed.
And of course, what would be a Kingdom, either of Hayasdan, the Caucasus or Persia, without a King? And thus, today we present the Hayasdan Family Member:
And of course, what would a General be without his loyal bodyguard? So we present the Hai Early Bodyguard.
We hope you have enjoyed this preview of some of the EB content.
Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.
Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.
As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:
Europa Barbarorum ORG forum
Europa Barbarorum TWC forum
We give special thanks to Imageshack that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.
Have a great day!
Sincerely,
The Europa Barbarorum team.
Today is a very special preview for me. The following work has been long in the making, and for a faction dear to my heart. Hayasdan has always lacked that special something, a campaign that is given a definite goal to attain and that changes throughout.
Thus it is with great pleasure that I introduce:
EB Preview : Hayasdan Reforms
As always there are so many different people to thank; Kull and Blacksnail for their advice on the coding, Atilius for advice on scripting and BozosLiveHere for traits. The PersianCataphract and Artavazd for their help with history and translations, Uranos for the lovely UI images used down the right-hand side, and Xprime and Stefan25 for the little treats at the end.
This preview is best seen at a resolution of 1280x1024, and may not look as cool on lower resolutions.
The Hayasdan Reforms : Introduction
The first Persian Empire was that of Cyrus the Great, the Achaemenid. With the fall of Darius III Codomannus, the Achaemenid Empire was no more.
The second Persian Empire was that of Arsaces I, and it was known as the Arsacid Empire, or the Parthian Empire. These Parthians, who were once nomads, carved out an empire that lasted twice as long as the Achaemenid Empire.
But the Arsacid kings were not inheritors of the Achaemenids by blood, but by tradition. The history of the Achaemenid Empire had been lost and was replaced with myth and tradition - the relief at Bisutun was already being wrongly attributed to the legendary Queen Semiramis by the 4th century BC.
There were, however, survivors of the old dynasty of the Achaemenids , who could claim lineage to Cyrus, Darius and Artaxerxes - and, more importantly, who had the power to do so.
The Orontid dynasty (Yervanduni) of Hayasdan were one such family. Descended from Orontes I (Yervand), satrap of the 13th satrapy, and then later the 10th as well, in the 4th century BC. Orontes I was reportedly of royal Bactrian blood, but had also been wed to the daughter of Artaxerxes II, Rhodogune.
Orontes' power and respect at the Persian Court was enough to have himself pardoned of treason when he led a satrapal revolt against the Persian King.
In 272 BC, the kingdom of Hayasdan, still beneath the rule of the Orontid dynasty, was not the homogeneous kingdom that would later mark its rise to power in the Caucasus. Whilst able to withstand the political pressure of Arche Seleukeia from within her mountain fortress, the disparate tribes of Hayasdan could not pose any threat beyond the confines of that self-same fortress. But, perhaps, had these peoples of Hayasdan been united sooner, beneath one king, the star of that kingdom in the Caucasus would have risen before the Parthians could fall upon the Hellenic Empire and claim Persia for themselves. And with the might of the Caucasus behind them, perhaps just perhaps, the second Persian Empire might not have been called Arsacid - but Orontid!
The Pan-Caucasus Empire Reform
Hayasdan's position at the start of the game is tenuous. The only thing stopping the kings of Seleukos from marching into her lands is because the might of Arche Seleukeia is focused elsewhere. The kingdom is not united, and it will take a strong king to do so.When Hayasdan begins now, she will start with a Type III government, and for the moment the higher level governments - Type I and Type II - will be unavailable to her. This represents the fractured and uncentralised government that must have characterised the early reigns of the first Yervanduni Kings. Hayasdan's populations are spread across the valleys and mountainsides of the Caucasus, and are impossible to travel between in winter, and difficult at most other times. It will take a strong hand and a firm grip to unite the tribes of Hayasdan and of the Caucasus beneath one strong and central rule.
This process, as represented in the game, is possible after important infrastructure is built:
Roads will be required to strengthen the pathways and passes over the mountains and between the valleys, so that even in winter the rule of one king can be felt by all.
Better markets will need to be set up, to help strengthen economic ties between the valleys and enrich the populace with foreign goods and the chance to sell their wares even further abroad.
A more urbanised population will also be important, a central authority is hindered not helped by a dispersed population; large population centres will focus authority and widen its influence.
And to guard these new population centres, town garrisons will need to be set up to protect the citizens of the kingdom from attack; only without fear can a people prosper and grow.
Once authority in the Kingdom of Hayasdan is achieved, once a Type I Government is built in Armavir, the authority of the Hai King will be unparalleled in the Caucasus. A Pan-Caucasus Empire would offer a powerful position from which to push into Anatolia or into the Arche Seleukeia itself.This reform will allow the player to unite the Caucasus by building Type I governments in Hayasadan, Pokr Hayk, and Sophene; and by building Type II governments in Kartli, Egrisi, Aghvan, Adurbadegan, and Pontos Paralios.
Uniting the Caucasus beneath one crown will give the Hai Arkah the right to call himself a King of Kings!
The Orontid Empire Reform: Introduction
Historically, Hayasdan was never in a position to rebuild the Achaemenid Empire in her own image. Arche Seleukeia’s control over Persis, Elymais and Media was, for much of its early history, not pestered by internal dissent and instability. This was largely thanks to the policy, begun by Alexander, to work with the local aristocracy and respect the native traditions. It was only the twin pressures of the Romans and the Parthians that began the inevitable dissolution of the Seleukid Empire.
By this time Hayasdan’s economy and military had become organised under the new king Artashes, whose successes in battle helped form Hayasdan into a homogenous kingdom. Had this transition happened under an earlier king, before the rise of Parthian power in the east, and had this new, more powerful kingdom been successful in expanding into the northern lands of Arche Seleukeia, then it is entirely possible that the second Persian Empire (counting the Achaemenid as the first) could have been Orontid (Yervanduni) and not Arsacid.
Could it have been possible? Could Hayasdan, with the weight of the Caucasus behind her, have forged Persia, Media and Mesopotamia once more into an Empire that spanned from the lands of Bactria to the lands of Syria, and - beyond?When Hayasdan first moves into the lands of Mesopotamia, Syria and Media she will only be able to build Type III or Type IV governments. These represent the continuation of an Hellenic elite in the province and will allow the recruitment of soldiers armed and trained in the Hellenic style, alongside low-level eastern troops.
But if the Hai Arkah comes to Persis and Elymais, and the cities of Persepolis and Susa, as a conqueror and law-maker, then he may make a claim to the throne of the Achaemenid Empire.
The Persian Kingship is one shrouded in tradition and myth. The traits of a Persian King are marked upon the many reliefs throughout the old Achaemenid Kingdom. He must be favoured by the gods, manifest in his success in battle. He must be a righter of wrongs, and bring peace and order to the land. He must proclaim himself to be of the Aryans, so that the people know that he is one of their own. His history must be one of hardship and toil as an ordinary man destined for great things, just as Cyrus and Arsaces were robbers according to legend. He must claim descent from past authority in Persia.
All these things paint the image of a just and mighty ruler, fit for the throne of Persia!
The Orontid Empire Reform: Processes
The process, as represented in game, is a complex one. 
Firstly, the Hai Arkah must arrive in Persis with the blessings of Ahura Mazda, or Aramazd in the Armenian Pantheon. Great battles have been fought, and the enemies of good righteous people been vanquished; the cities of Mesopotamia, Media and Elymais must have been grasped from the iron rule of Arche Seleukeia.The Hai Arkah must also have show his work by uniting the Caucasus Mountains beneath one king (see the Pan-Caucasus Empire Reform above).
These newly acquired provinces must also be placed under the rule of a suitable and loyal subject; a satrap of either Hellenic, Persian or Armenian stock - a Type III Government.The people of Elymais and of Persis will be the first to welcome their new King with open arms.
The transition from a Type III Government to a Type II Government in Persis and Elymais follows the same path for all provinces in the Orontid Empire Reform area, so explaining it for one province explains it for all.
The first step is to build the policy building called Royal Administration, the precursor to a full-scale transition from a Type III Government to a Type II Government in the the province. In a perfect world the Satrapal system would need very little central interference, but power corrupts and the
massive distances and decentralised authority of an Empire can mean that Satraps or local governors may defy the Suzerain and King.
In the provinces within the Orontid Empire Reform zone a new policy building will now be available. The Conquerer Comes ... begins the process of removing the Hellenic settlers and ruling elite from the land and returning control to the old Persian clans and local rulers - who enjoyed power under the Achaemenid Empire - as well as introducing loyal Armenian clans. This process of political and social reform will take years and cause much unrest amongst the population.A script will now check a set of conditions in other provinces (see map below), if the conditions return true then after a couple of turns it will
create the Expansion Precursor building in the province, which will allow the construction of a Type II Government. The building of the Type II Government (after destroying the Type III and rebuilding the Government Precursor) is not the end of the transition, as the population are still not peaceful nor are the new powers in the province safely seated upon their thrones - the land is too unstable. What is required is the building of the military infrastructure to solidify the rule of the new Persian King.The construction of the Town Barracks and Stables represents much more than a simple upgrading of the military infrastructure of a region, the time taken to build the MIC level up this high also represents the settling of the region under its new rulers and beneath the
crown of a new Persian King.
The final stage of this process is the removal of the penalties that represented the unrest and civil disorder resulting from the political and social reforms in the province. Now these changes are over (for the most part), the building, ... and Brings Peace and Order, can be built, which returns the penalties back to normal. Once this building is constructed the process can begin in the next tier of the reforms (see below).The Orontid Empire Reforms are tiered, and the process is one of consolidation before expansion. Provinces within the reform zone are grouped into 3s and 4s and only once each province within the group has been fully reformed (by constructing the policy building ... and Brings Peace and Order) can the next group of provinces begin the process of being reformed. Also, all provinces in the tier must have started the process of
being reformed before the script will place the Expansion Precursor in any one of them.
In addition the centre of the reform zone are the two provinces Elymais and Persis. The reform tiers to the east and west are completely separate, and focusing on either of the directions to the detriment of the other is entirely possible. In other words, reforming provinces in the east would not require doing any reforms in the west and vice versa.
Tier 1: Persis, Elymais
Tier 2W: Media, Mesopotamia, Babylonia, Charax Spasinou
Tier 3W: Adiabene, Assyrie, Tadmor
Tier 4W: Syria, Syria Koile, Kilikia
Tier 2Ea: Hyrkania, Khoarene, Gabiene
Tier 2Eb: Gabiene, Karmania
Tier 3Ea: Astauene, Parthyaia, Aria
Tier 3Eb: Aria, Drangiane, Arachosia, Gedrosia
Tier 4E: Margiane, Baktria, Paropamisadai
In the Eastward Expansion, two of the tiers have been split up into Part A and Part B. The individual parts can be reformed separately, but both Part A and Part B must be reformed before the next tier can be reformed.
And of course, what would be a Kingdom, either of Hayasdan, the Caucasus or Persia, without a King? And thus, today we present the Hayasdan Family Member:
And of course, what would a General be without his loyal bodyguard? So we present the Hai Early Bodyguard.
We hope you have enjoyed this preview of some of the EB content.
Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures, names, and descriptions shown in our previews are works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and we will continue to do so long after our initial release.
Since some areas where these news items are posted cannot handle wide images, we appreciate your restraint from quoting full-size images.
As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them is here, where the EB team is most active:
Europa Barbarorum ORG forum
Europa Barbarorum TWC forum
We give special thanks to Imageshack that provides us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.
Have a great day!
Sincerely,
The Europa Barbarorum team.
shouldn't this be pinned?
Yeah, if only my bosses gave me the power. Where's Krusader when you need him.
Foot
Foot
WOW. Having seen the Hayasdan Reforms at their infancy, I can only stand in awe when I see them presented. Well done Foot! 
Wow very nice work EB team. I added "Hayasadan" to my wish list for the next release. Fighting alongside proud armenian comrades should be exciting.
Hail on Armenistan ,EB team and Foot the Great :D
Hail on Armenistan ,EB team and Foot the Great :D
This is great news, especially as I'm a big fan of the Armenians! But I'm not a big fan of the idea of having to remove the greeks from the east...
That's sick. Great job EB.
You don't have to if you don't want to. There are benefits to keeping the Hellenes in Persia and Mesopotamia. For a start you get good access to some of their better troops, but that does mean that you lose out on the higher level persian troops.
Foot
Foot
The only real thing you have to do is to righteously restore The Achaemenid World Order!
Wow- that is awesome! How cool is it that I can choose between a Hellenic and Persian empire, and if I want to Persian-ize my empire, it will be properly difficult and rewarding! By the way, I think I saw some cool new units along the sidebar, very cool! 
It's incredible, but will the AI be able to reform their provinces, too?
Thanks Foot & Co.
No, there would be no way for the AI to recognise what to do. In deference to the Ai stupidity, as Hayasdan it will start with a type I government, and its government placement by script has not changed. As the player, of course, you will need to jump through hoops just to get a type I gov in your starting province.
Foot
Foot
I'm a bit confused about the east & west reforms - does the "tiers" map mean that you can eventually build a Type II goverment in all the colored provinces? But you need to complete the reforms in the neighbouring provinces closer to centre first? Are Type II's now exclusive to these lands, or can you build that government type "normally" elsewhere, like Asia Minor?
Type IIs are exclusive to the Caucasus (and Kappadokia and Kappadokia Pontika) and reformed provinces in the big map above (all coloured areas). The East & West reforms start in Persis and Elymais, but allow the player to focus on one direction over another instead of having to do both directions at once (in tiers eminating out of the centre of the map).
Foot
Foot
I was always interested in playing Hyasdan or Pontus after my Romani campain is done. But this introduction to the Hyasdan increased by interest in them. Well done Foot.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Thanks for clearing that up 
Wow, I've been a major lurker on these forums for a while, but this new preview is making me come out of my cave... 
I have yet to play as Hayasdan, but when this comes out...that faction will be near the head of the list. I really like the whole "kicking the greeks out" idea. I like to roleplay when I play my campaigns and this will be exciting har har...though, I could always just let the Greeks live side by side with me.... nah
I have yet to play as Hayasdan, but when this comes out...that faction will be near the head of the list. I really like the whole "kicking the greeks out" idea. I like to roleplay when I play my campaigns and this will be exciting har har...though, I could always just let the Greeks live side by side with me....
nahThe preview seems very nice, but I'm a bit confused about a few things.
- This is about the historical background. Basically, are you saying that Pahlava are just pseudo-Persians (if we take "Persians" to mean Cyrus, Darius and co.) and that the Hayasdan are the true Persians who happen to be living in Armenia?
- Will none of the features described happen if the player plays as someone other than Hayasdan (i.e. Hayasdan is controlled by the AI)?
- What do the "a" and "b" province branches do in the east?
- What does that first little map mean, with the red and the green?
- And what does the second little map mean, which only has green?
- You keep talking about a great leader and so on - is that just roleplay stuff, or will the game actually require a Family Member who possesses various Traits in order to first unite the Caucasus, and then the Empire? If so, what if that person dies halfway through? Isn't this whole concept very suceptible to something going wrong and totally screwing it up (kind-of like a huge Agoge)?
- If someone were to play as Hayasdan, completely ignore this whole system and just "steamroll" all of Baktria and Arche Seleukeia (i.e. if they were to gain control of all the provinces that this system applies to) without changing a single thing in terms of government reform etc. - i.e. just the bog-standard destroy-old-government-and-shove-your-one-in - would the provinces be unmanageable for the player? Or, in fact, is it easier just to leave the provinces as they are instead of going through the messy process of "Persianisation"?
- Is this system of tiered assimilation an actual reflection on an aspect of Hai culture/politics that was unique to them, or is it more a gameplay thing, to prevent "steamrolling"? If it is the latter:
- Could similar systems (i.e. of needing to fully assimilate existing conquered territories before being able to move on and continue expansion) be implemented for other factions, to stop people "steamrolling" as them?
- Could this system still be bypassed/ignored by determined steamrollers (see point 7)?
- If someone did indeed go for the "Persianisation" method, would they be forced to Persianise every appropriate province in order to be able to move on to the next tier? Is there any chance to have some centres with local troops, and some with factional (like mixing Type II and Type IV Governments as the Romani or whoever)?
- Are the actual steps that you would need to go through in the east and west the same (i.e. you'd have to build the same buildings etc.), just that the two areas are independent of each other?
- What happened to the EB font in the preview?
- Foot, which unit is the guy in your signature?
DAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Nice work Foot and EB team.
1. The Pahlavans were a nomadic people who collapsed onto the province of Parthyaia like a tonne of rectangular building materials. They then took the name of the peoples of this province (before they had been the Parni) and conquered more and more of Persia and the other surrounding provinces. They certainly didn't come from Persia, nor had any connection to the Achaemenids. The ruling family of the Armenia at our start date are the Yervanduni, whose ancestor married into the Achaemenid family through the daughter of Artaxerxes II in the early 4th century BC. The Yervanduni family were not persian, but they had been powerful satraps (even viceroys) in the Achaemenid Empire until it fell. Yervand I (who was never King of Hayasdan) was Bactrian, but the later dynasts became firmly Armenian, especially once they had declared themselves kings. They were likely heavily persianised.
Orontid is the greek transliteration of Yervanduni.
2. The AI, given that it never expands as the Hayasdan, doesn't have access to these reforms and cannot set them off. The Ai wouldn't even know what to do anyway.
3. To reform a province in the Orontid Empire Reforms, you need to begin the process in all the provinces in the same tier. So if I wanted to begin the process of reforming the province Assyria by constructing the policy building, "The Conquerer Comes...", I would also need to construct that same building in Adiabene and Tadmor before the script would place the Expansion Precursor allowing me to build a type II. In the east there is a problem as two of the tiers are quite quite large. I have thus split them up. To reform the province of Hyrkania, I would also need to construct the building "the Conquerer Comes ..." in Gabiene and Khoarene, but I would not need to do it in Karmania. However to complete the tier and thus be able to reform the next one, I must have reformed all four provinces, Hyrkania, Gabiene and Khoarene together, and Gabiene and Karmania together (if Gabiene already has the Expansion Precursor, ie been reformed already as part of the other group in the tier, then it will still count when reforming the other provinces in either Part A or Part B (depending which one you did first).
4. These show the provinces that form the first reform, the Pan-Caucasus Empire Reform, the red provinces allow Type I Govs and the Green provinces allow Type II Govs. Obviously you must first complete the required tasks described for the Pan-Caucasus Empire Reforms.
5. The second map shows the provinces that must be held by Hayasdan before it can reform the provinces of Persis and Elymais. These provinces, highlighted in green, must have a Type III Gov built in all of them (they will allow Type III and Type IV govs).
6. That is just roleplay stuff, I have no interest in currently in restricting the OERs to kings with certain traits.
7. The provinces would be quite manageable, though the distance to capital penalties in Baktria might be quite crippling, and any good roleplayer would not want to put his capital in a type III gov province. It is in fact easier to leave the provinces as they are, you don't have to spend so much money on them and can put more time in buildings to help public order. But the option is open.
8. It reflects a similar process that the Parthians went through, but it is largely to stop the player from steamrolling through the provinces (also helped by the 10 year per province building time to fully reform a province - though many provinces can be done at the sametime).
9. The Persianisation method does not restrict Hellenic troops overly, A type II gov still allows for a level 3 Regional MIC, which would be able to recruit pantodapoi phalangitai. Higher level hellenic troops however would not be available. Furthermore factional troops in the persianised provinces will not be Hayasdan troops, but persian troops and regionals that would not otherwise be available were the province still under Hellenic rule. A type III and a Type IV gov in the provinces mapped out above allow for hellenic troops only (and some low level regionals such as artish pada and thanvare payahdag). Only by building a type II gov would you be able to recruit the more interesting units, that are regionals to other factions. There is no chance of having a Type IV mixed in with a Type II, the script would grow disproportionately in complexity.
10. Yes, as I said in the preview the same steps are required in each province. The way it works, the marriage between the script and the edb requires this to be so.
11. This was my own work entirely on my own, and it fitted my style better to do it as above.
12. He is the Hai Arkah, as drawn by Caractacos, and now represents the Hai Family Member in-game, as you can see in the pictures.
Foot
Orontid is the greek transliteration of Yervanduni.
2. The AI, given that it never expands as the Hayasdan, doesn't have access to these reforms and cannot set them off. The Ai wouldn't even know what to do anyway.
3. To reform a province in the Orontid Empire Reforms, you need to begin the process in all the provinces in the same tier. So if I wanted to begin the process of reforming the province Assyria by constructing the policy building, "The Conquerer Comes...", I would also need to construct that same building in Adiabene and Tadmor before the script would place the Expansion Precursor allowing me to build a type II. In the east there is a problem as two of the tiers are quite quite large. I have thus split them up. To reform the province of Hyrkania, I would also need to construct the building "the Conquerer Comes ..." in Gabiene and Khoarene, but I would not need to do it in Karmania. However to complete the tier and thus be able to reform the next one, I must have reformed all four provinces, Hyrkania, Gabiene and Khoarene together, and Gabiene and Karmania together (if Gabiene already has the Expansion Precursor, ie been reformed already as part of the other group in the tier, then it will still count when reforming the other provinces in either Part A or Part B (depending which one you did first).
4. These show the provinces that form the first reform, the Pan-Caucasus Empire Reform, the red provinces allow Type I Govs and the Green provinces allow Type II Govs. Obviously you must first complete the required tasks described for the Pan-Caucasus Empire Reforms.
5. The second map shows the provinces that must be held by Hayasdan before it can reform the provinces of Persis and Elymais. These provinces, highlighted in green, must have a Type III Gov built in all of them (they will allow Type III and Type IV govs).
6. That is just roleplay stuff, I have no interest in currently in restricting the OERs to kings with certain traits.
7. The provinces would be quite manageable, though the distance to capital penalties in Baktria might be quite crippling, and any good roleplayer would not want to put his capital in a type III gov province. It is in fact easier to leave the provinces as they are, you don't have to spend so much money on them and can put more time in buildings to help public order. But the option is open.
8. It reflects a similar process that the Parthians went through, but it is largely to stop the player from steamrolling through the provinces (also helped by the 10 year per province building time to fully reform a province - though many provinces can be done at the sametime).
9. The Persianisation method does not restrict Hellenic troops overly, A type II gov still allows for a level 3 Regional MIC, which would be able to recruit pantodapoi phalangitai. Higher level hellenic troops however would not be available. Furthermore factional troops in the persianised provinces will not be Hayasdan troops, but persian troops and regionals that would not otherwise be available were the province still under Hellenic rule. A type III and a Type IV gov in the provinces mapped out above allow for hellenic troops only (and some low level regionals such as artish pada and thanvare payahdag). Only by building a type II gov would you be able to recruit the more interesting units, that are regionals to other factions. There is no chance of having a Type IV mixed in with a Type II, the script would grow disproportionately in complexity.
10. Yes, as I said in the preview the same steps are required in each province. The way it works, the marriage between the script and the edb requires this to be so.
11. This was my own work entirely on my own, and it fitted my style better to do it as above.
12. He is the Hai Arkah, as drawn by Caractacos, and now represents the Hai Family Member in-game, as you can see in the pictures.
Foot
The thing is I can understand why Kull got the credit. We both have the same banner!
Was actually me though.
Foot
Was actually me though.
Foot
WOW, Foot!!!
great job! thanks a lot!
great job! thanks a lot!
Originally Posted by Foot:
The thing is I can understand why Kull got the credit. We both have the same banner!
Was actually me though.
The thing is I can understand why Kull got the credit. We both have the same banner!
Was actually me though.
, thanks Foot.Anyone found the barely hidden easter eggs? There are two of them.
Foot
Foot
Originally Posted by Foot:
Anyone found the barely hidden easter eggs? There are two of them.
Foot
is new infantry unit one of them?Anyone found the barely hidden easter eggs? There are two of them.
Foot
Thanks for the answers, Foot, but I'm not sure about any easter eggs :S
nah, all units down the right have already been previewed. I was referring more in the way of building descriptions.
I mean, they are not really hidden, but you know...
Foot
I mean, they are not really hidden, but you know...
Foot
To elaborate on Foot's explanation on the historical grounds of this concept, is that "Persia" itself as a designation is a misnomer caused by a simple, but quite significant mistake in Herodotus' "Histories". The Achaemenid Empire was an amalgam of ethnically Persian and Medean royal lines and through satrapal fragmentation, foremostly in the area that constituted the "Greater Iran", the Achaemenid world order is better designated as an Iranian empire. The later Armenians gradually lost this identity as the Orontids began to fade out in favour of the more independent Artaxiad dynasty. A by-product of the Parthian conquests was that Graeco-Roman authors tried to apply Arsaces the lineage of the Achaemenid king Artaxerxes (Can't really remember the numerical designation, but it is apparent in Historiarum Philippicarum). Historically, the Parthians projected the third Iranian empire. In matter of legitimacy to Achaemenids, they lacked the "credentials" of the Orontids or those of the Mithridatic dynasty of Pontus. It is about as simple as that.
What the Parthians however have in common with Deioces, and Cyrus The Great was their humble origins. Their legitimacy as an Iranian empire is dignified by deeds, even though the Pârnî themselves were Iranian and spoke a language highly similar to Old Persian, the lingual basis for the Middle Persian or Pahlavî language. However Armenia has been incredibly pivotal in Ancient Iranian history to such a degree that it is included in the area that constitutes the "Greater Iran" and more importantly the designation of a "Persianate". This preview should not be taken at a face value in the historical sense. Much thanks to Foot's brilliant idea, I am truly honoured that I've taken a small part in contributing my knowledge to the endeavouring of making the remarkable Armenian faction more attractive. What I have shared is the model of how "Eastern" nations in history expanded, and a strategy plan of consolidation. Without revealing any concepted plan, I ask the fans to try to realize the potential of this structure.
As usual any question on "when's" will be met by official replies with absurd estimates solely meant to increase hype
What the Parthians however have in common with Deioces, and Cyrus The Great was their humble origins. Their legitimacy as an Iranian empire is dignified by deeds, even though the Pârnî themselves were Iranian and spoke a language highly similar to Old Persian, the lingual basis for the Middle Persian or Pahlavî language. However Armenia has been incredibly pivotal in Ancient Iranian history to such a degree that it is included in the area that constitutes the "Greater Iran" and more importantly the designation of a "Persianate". This preview should not be taken at a face value in the historical sense. Much thanks to Foot's brilliant idea, I am truly honoured that I've taken a small part in contributing my knowledge to the endeavouring of making the remarkable Armenian faction more attractive. What I have shared is the model of how "Eastern" nations in history expanded, and a strategy plan of consolidation. Without revealing any concepted plan, I ask the fans to try to realize the potential of this structure.
As usual any question on "when's" will be met by official replies with absurd estimates solely meant to increase hype
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