EB Preview : Hayasdan Reforms

**Conqueror** · 08-11-2007, 16:01

I'm a bit confused about the east & west reforms - does the "tiers" map mean that you can eventually build a Type II goverment in all the colored provinces? But you need to complete the reforms in the neighbouring provinces closer to centre first? Are Type II's now exclusive to these lands, or can you build that government type "normally" elsewhere, like Asia Minor?

**Foot** · 08-11-2007, 16:08

Type IIs are exclusive to the Caucasus (and Kappadokia and Kappadokia Pontika) and reformed provinces in the big map above (all coloured areas). The East & West reforms start in Persis and Elymais, but allow the player to focus on one direction over another instead of having to do both directions at once (in tiers eminating out of the centre of the map).

Foot

**Reno Melitensis** · 08-11-2007, 16:18

I was always interested in playing Hyasdan or Pontus after my Romani campain is done. But this introduction to the Hyasdan increased by interest in them. Well done Foot.

Cheers.

**Conqueror** · 08-11-2007, 16:18

Thanks for clearing that up

**I Am Herenow** · 08-11-2007, 16:39

The preview seems very nice, but I'm a bit confused about a few things.

This is about the historical background. Basically, are you saying that Pahlava are just pseudo-Persians (if we take "Persians" to mean Cyrus, Darius and co.) and that the Hayasdan are the true Persians who happen to be living in Armenia?
Will none of the features described happen if the player plays as someone other than Hayasdan (i.e. Hayasdan is controlled by the AI)?
What do the "a" and "b" province branches do in the east?
What does that first little map mean, with the red and the green?
And what does the second little map mean, which only has green?
You keep talking about a great leader and so on - is that just roleplay stuff, or will the game actually require a Family Member who possesses various Traits in order to first unite the Caucasus, and then the Empire? If so, what if that person dies halfway through? Isn't this whole concept very suceptible to something going wrong and totally screwing it up (kind-of like a huge Agoge)?
If someone were to play as Hayasdan, completely ignore this whole system and just "steamroll" all of Baktria and Arche Seleukeia (i.e. if they were to gain control of all the provinces that this system applies to) without changing a single thing in terms of government reform etc. - i.e. just the bog-standard destroy-old-government-and-shove-your-one-in - would the provinces be unmanageable for the player? Or, in fact, is it easier just to leave the provinces as they are instead of going through the messy process of "Persianisation"?
Is this system of tiered assimilation an actual reflection on an aspect of Hai culture/politics that was unique to them, or is it more a gameplay thing, to prevent "steamrolling"? If it is the latter:
1. Could similar systems (i.e. of needing to fully assimilate existing conquered territories before being able to move on and continue expansion) be implemented for other factions, to stop people "steamrolling" as them?
2. Could this system still be bypassed/ignored by determined steamrollers (see point 7)?
If someone did indeed go for the "Persianisation" method, would they be forced to Persianise every appropriate province in order to be able to move on to the next tier? Is there any chance to have some centres with local troops, and some with factional (like mixing Type II and Type IV Governments as the Romani or whoever)?
Are the actual steps that you would need to go through in the east and west the same (i.e. you'd have to build the same buildings etc.), just that the two areas are independent of each other?
What happened to the EB font in the preview?
Foot, which unit is the guy in your signature?

I would be very grateful if someone could clear these points up for me

**NeoSpartan** · 08-11-2007, 17:18

DAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice work Foot and EB team.

**Foot** · 08-11-2007, 17:25

1. The Pahlavans were a nomadic people who collapsed onto the province of Parthyaia like a tonne of rectangular building materials. They then took the name of the peoples of this province (before they had been the Parni) and conquered more and more of Persia and the other surrounding provinces. They certainly didn't come from Persia, nor had any connection to the Achaemenids. The ruling family of the Armenia at our start date are the Yervanduni, whose ancestor married into the Achaemenid family through the daughter of Artaxerxes II in the early 4th century BC. The Yervanduni family were not persian, but they had been powerful satraps (even viceroys) in the Achaemenid Empire until it fell. Yervand I (who was never King of Hayasdan) was Bactrian, but the later dynasts became firmly Armenian, especially once they had declared themselves kings. They were likely heavily persianised.

Orontid is the greek transliteration of Yervanduni.

2. The AI, given that it never expands as the Hayasdan, doesn't have access to these reforms and cannot set them off. The Ai wouldn't even know what to do anyway.

3. To reform a province in the Orontid Empire Reforms, you need to begin the process in all the provinces in the same tier. So if I wanted to begin the process of reforming the province Assyria by constructing the policy building, "The Conquerer Comes...", I would also need to construct that same building in Adiabene and Tadmor before the script would place the Expansion Precursor allowing me to build a type II. In the east there is a problem as two of the tiers are quite quite large. I have thus split them up. To reform the province of Hyrkania, I would also need to construct the building "the Conquerer Comes ..." in Gabiene and Khoarene, but I would not need to do it in Karmania. However to complete the tier and thus be able to reform the next one, I must have reformed all four provinces, Hyrkania, Gabiene and Khoarene together, and Gabiene and Karmania together (if Gabiene already has the Expansion Precursor, ie been reformed already as part of the other group in the tier, then it will still count when reforming the other provinces in either Part A or Part B (depending which one you did first).

4. These show the provinces that form the first reform, the Pan-Caucasus Empire Reform, the red provinces allow Type I Govs and the Green provinces allow Type II Govs. Obviously you must first complete the required tasks described for the Pan-Caucasus Empire Reforms.

5. The second map shows the provinces that must be held by Hayasdan before it can reform the provinces of Persis and Elymais. These provinces, highlighted in green, must have a Type III Gov built in all of them (they will allow Type III and Type IV govs).

6. That is just roleplay stuff, I have no interest in currently in restricting the OERs to kings with certain traits.

7. The provinces would be quite manageable, though the distance to capital penalties in Baktria might be quite crippling, and any good roleplayer would not want to put his capital in a type III gov province. It is in fact easier to leave the provinces as they are, you don't have to spend so much money on them and can put more time in buildings to help public order. But the option is open.

8. It reflects a similar process that the Parthians went through, but it is largely to stop the player from steamrolling through the provinces (also helped by the 10 year per province building time to fully reform a province - though many provinces can be done at the sametime).

9. The Persianisation method does not restrict Hellenic troops overly, A type II gov still allows for a level 3 Regional MIC, which would be able to recruit pantodapoi phalangitai. Higher level hellenic troops however would not be available. Furthermore factional troops in the persianised provinces will not be Hayasdan troops, but persian troops and regionals that would not otherwise be available were the province still under Hellenic rule. A type III and a Type IV gov in the provinces mapped out above allow for hellenic troops only (and some low level regionals such as artish pada and thanvare payahdag). Only by building a type II gov would you be able to recruit the more interesting units, that are regionals to other factions. There is no chance of having a Type IV mixed in with a Type II, the script would grow disproportionately in complexity.

10. Yes, as I said in the preview the same steps are required in each province. The way it works, the marriage between the script and the edb requires this to be so.

11. This was my own work entirely on my own, and it fitted my style better to do it as above.

12. He is the Hai Arkah, as drawn by Caractacos, and now represents the Hai Family Member in-game, as you can see in the pictures.

Foot