Imperial Diet V

**Privateerkev** · 08-20-2007, 15:15

*puts hand to forehead*

There is no conflict in the law Lothar. You just don't like the law.

Look, I have a war to run. I can't be running to the Dukes asking them to please build my barracks. I was picked to coordinate the defense of Outremer and that is what I will do. I need to be able to build in crusader counties without counts. Your Ducal micromanagment of the war effort in Outremer is going to get my men killed.

If you want me to manage the Reich's lands in the East then let me manage and do not pass a preposterous law that will be a micromanagement nightmare.

Furthermore, your CA does not provide for the Duke to manage the building in those counties. It merely ensures that no one will be able to build there if I have no count. Crusader Counts are not Counts. Therefore law 4.5 has no effect in Outremer.

**TinCow** · 08-20-2007, 15:23

The is entirely incorrect, Jan. As I have alreay shown you, all Outremer provinces belong to the Ducal Houses and to the Emperor. There is not a single province in Outremer that is outside of the Ducal Houses or the Reich. As that is the situation, the Dukes and the Emperor are fully authorized by law to manage them if Counts are not appointed to them.

**Privateerkev** · 08-20-2007, 15:27

And you will need to point to the specific part of the law that says that Dukes manage Outremer Counties. There is no law. You are just making this stuff up. The Charter of Outremer is quite specific on this issue. If your CA passes, it merely ensures that no one can build in a county without a crusader count. Even the Kaiser can't direct the building of these settlements. It is left to Crusader Counts and then to me if there isn't one. All CA 12.5 does is allow me to put a count in a county if I need him there. I will give house preference but I can not have ungoverned counties.

**TinCow** · 08-20-2007, 15:31

Need I again state that there are no provinces that 'belong' to Outremer! Damascus is part of Austria, Adana is part of Bavaria, Acre is part of Swabia, Aleppo is part of Franconia, and Antioch and Edessa belong to the Emperor. The Charter of Outremer specifically states this! You are attempting to completely remove these provinces from the control of their rightful owners.

**Privateerkev** · 08-20-2007, 15:39

No, I am attempting to follow the Charter. Yes, these provinces belong to those that you say it belongs to. But, the Charter creates the position of King to manage these collection of provinces. And the Kaiser picked me to be that manager. The Dukes never had control of what is built in Outremer. If you wish that to change, then you will need to pass legislation that changes it and stop pretending that such a law exists when it clear does not.

I ask you again. Point to the specific law that gives Dukes the right to direct building in Outremer.

**AussieGiant** · 08-20-2007, 15:46

Standing to make his point clear, the intensity of the Duke begins to grow.

Lets be clear gentlemen!!

Outremer is meant to be an administrative body to allow semi independent governing of the HOUSE lands out there. That was the intention.

The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

The fact that until this time there have always been House Representatives to goven the Ducal holdings doesn't not remove the fact that they are implicitely allocated to the House by name.

The whole point of the charter was to equally represent the four houses in the east and to give every house a stake in the region!!

All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House.

THAT IS ALL FACT.

As far as I'm concerned if my House is unable to supply a crusader count for Damscus then it is Austrian by decree. As the crusader count must come from the House it is assigned to then if that is not fulfilled, it does not then magically pass onto someone else outside Austria as I am Duke of the House.

There are technicalites as per $%#^ing usual, BUT!!!!! Common sense must prevail in the spirit of what was written.

**Stuperman** · 08-20-2007, 16:09

Jan, you confuse me, you claim that you need control over build ques in the outremer, then claim that you can't have any ungoverned counties, thses are contridictory in my mind.

Unless you feel that it is your right as king to issue orders to your counts?

As for your excuse that you have a war to fight, and we should just shut up, we all have wars to fight.

the Sicilians and Spanish in the South, the Hungarians, Poles and Russians in the East and North, the Danes in the North, th French in the west.

Lothar's creative editing of your proposed CA was to show that the legislation in completely self serving, there is only one king in all the HRE and it woudl seem that you are appointed for life.

Your position as King is lower than that of Dukes, yet you feel it is in your right to take control of thier lands, and talk down to much more expierenced men. As "manager" of the Outremer, it is your job to work with the Dukes and the Chancellor to co-ordinate the defence, and economic policies of the outremer.

And as you seem so stuck up on it, can you show me specificallywhere it says that the king of the outremer can set build ques for the whole of the outremer, at his leisure.

You do realize that your title as King is in name only, and can be stripped as easly as if has been given.

**Privateerkev** · 08-20-2007, 16:14

Duke Gerhard,

I wish to give these counties to Crusader Counts. Yes I can set the build queues myself. But, I rather give it to men who leave their homes and help me with our mission out here.

My claim that I have a war to fight was to claim that I need to not be micr-managed. I do not wish anyone to "shut up".

There is only one King but there will be more after me. My CA is just to ensure that they have the same influence as their own Crusader Counts. It is an attempt to balance out the scales. Not weigh them in my favor.

As for the law that gives me the power to set build queues,

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.

As for my position, I am an agent of the Kaiser. Any problems with me, you can take to myself or him.