Question regarding fun factor of factions

[Intranetusa]

So far, I've only played Romans up till 100 BCE-ish before I got tired. (yes I know it's a bit sad)


Which faction would you judge to be fun/challenging? And I don't mean factions that are bankrupt for 100 years.


I've heard Carthage is good, but you're broke for the first decade.
Whereas many of the fun weaker factions are incomplete unit and building wise.

???

[EasternScourge]

Who cares if there incomplete.I played as Saba when all the faction cards were peasants and still had fun.Anyways,heres two of my favorite factions
with a short description of why they are fun/challenging.

Koinon Hellenes-Early game is challenging with the Makedonians and possibly Epirus breathing down your neck while you have barely enough money for a worthwhile army.However,once things start rolling your economy gets better and better.Eventually you'll be rolling in the dough.Once Makedonia and Epirus are taken care of things may seem easy.However,you got the Romans to the west,Getai to the north,and Arche Selukia to the east (aka the Silver Death).Depending on how things go they should prove challenging.

Sabyns- The economy is terrible at first,your armies are mostly made up of light infantry and skirmishers,and your neighbors are Egypt and Arche Selukia. If that is not challenging I don't know what is. Though the moderate isolation does help alot.Till the Silver Death comes knocking on your doorstep.

[Rundownloser]

Carthage is tons of fun, probably my favorite faction - Incredible unit variety (Libyans, Numidians, Iberians, Greeks), great start-up economy, really cool roleplaying aspect with the Barcid/Anti-Barcid traits, even interesting variety of enemies (Luso's, Romans, Ptolemies).

Macedonia is great too - Strong successor units with celt and thracian auxiliaries, allows expansion to the east and/or west, can be challenging in the early game.

Bactria is another fun one - Combination of Successor, Eastern, and Indian units along with a fragile position between three powers (Pahlava, Seleucids, and Saka).

I've heard that Pontus is really enjoyable, but I've never been able to last longer then ten-fifteen years with them. Very tough.

[Beefy187]

Pontus is great soon as you start getting strong Galatian Units.
I just used force deplomacy to fight off the Seleucids because im a noob.

[Spoofa]

early game Macedonia, really really challenging, no cheating at all, its horrible lol, if you dont send your main army up to pella then Pyrrhos will take Pella, if you do, the KH will attack demetrias. blah, I've had quite a few heroic barely won victories in pella with like 500 men vs Phyros's huge stack filled with professional soldiers and elephants.

[Intranetusa]

IMO, the silver Death is highly overrated. I gave them over a million in money via the console and all I did was fight stack after stack of low leveled millita infantry (really annoying) and rarely any high level elite phalangites. Even when I did fight the elite phalangites, it was too few, and the AI mixed them with crappy merc infantry.

[KARTLOS]

bactria -fantastic unit slection. only problem is that you have face slightly monmeric campaign. you will be mostly fighting selucids. but the time you have crushed them and reached the med, you may no have the inclination to move on.

hysadan - good unit select- excellent generals and a good mix of horse archers and reasonable inf.
very good location as well, you will get to fight selucids (obviously!) greeks, macedons, dacian probably and steppe armies like the sarmations. iam currently campaigning against the sweboz north west of the black sea.
being able to recruit tindonatai (sp? naked celts) mercs in turkey is awesome as well.

[Treverer]

...
Which faction would you judge to be fun/challenging? And I don't mean factions that are bankrupt for 100 years.
...

Play the Arche Seleukia! They have lots of provinces, good high-end units, enough ennemies at every time (;-)) and the funny / challenging factor IMHO is to 'organize' the empire in the early game: building up your economy, reducing unrest & defending against the Ptolemaioi needs your whole attention.
You can get Elephants in India, the Indian Longbowmen, Galatikoi Tindanotae (= Gesastae [sp?]) and much more ...

Yours,
Treverer

[larsbecks]

Koinon Hellenion is fun to roleplay as. I like to keep 3 distinct armies for each city state.
Carthage is fun if you want to simulate the march to Rome.
Baktria is fun if you like to have money. They have mines galore and the impending civil war with the AS is fun to roleplay.

[Morte66]

These are the ones I've played at any length. Everything here is IMHO, AFAIK...


Carthage:

Can make a profit on turn 1 if you prune: the navy, garrisons near the capital that can reinforce each other, and outlying garrisons that wouldn't survive an attack anyhow.

Decent military, mostly good spearmen (not phalanxes) and good cavalry, some good Iberian light infantry. A heavyweight successor military with pike phalanxes and heavy cav might grind you into the dirt until you get your best troops, but they're all at the other end of the map. Balearic slingers are very handy against heavily armoured opponents that otherwise give you trouble.

You have an isolated starting position with secure flanks, and you can expand into Africa and Spain without running into dangerous enemies. If you take Sicily you can defend it at a choke point. There's excellent trade and mining potential, but lots of corruption and unrest caused by long distances that will take careful management. This is the closest you get to playing Civ near the start of EB. If close city management and and careful wars of conquest/consolidation sound like fun, Carthage are a good faction to play.


Rome:

Too easy if you're good at it (loadsa money and good military). Nice and easy if you're a beginner finding your feet.

Rome have the best tech tree for managing unrest and corruption in large empires. If you want to play for hundreds of turns and conquer the map, or if you hate squalor and corruption causing more trouble than the enemy, this is the one to go for.


Macedon:

Backs to the wall on turn one: small empire, low population, Epeiros in your face, even the squabbling Greek cities are united against you. If you make it through ten turns you're laughing. You can take Epeiros + mainland KH which will straighten your finances, then you're sitting on very rich turf with a superb unit roster and secure flanks so you just have to build/conquer away.

The Maks have a big region 1/2 recruitment zone and pretty good tech, so they are set up for managing big empires.

I find their military a bit "blunt implement" but they sure as hell get the job done.


Epeiros:

Bargain basement Macedon, plus elephants, plus a brilliant starting general, plus a starting map with huge potential and huge risk. Thrilling to start, but management will get to be a chore later. I'd play Epeiros for a short game or Macedon for a long game.


Koinon Hellenion:

Similar to Mac/Eperiros: scary start, loadsa money and secure flanks if you survive, decent empire potential. The military isn't as good: spear hoplites instead of pike phalangites, and the cavalry is weak. But the KH armies can do the job if used well, and a few mercs go a long way once you build the economy to pay for them.

Their empire-building potential is pretty good.


Getai:

Really fun if you can take a few provinces early and hang together long enough to get your better units. The Getai have an interesting and good but not overpowering military: light and heavy spear phalanxes, cheap Skythian horse archers at Kallatis, good skirmishers (cheap and expensive versions), OK slingers, and very decent local Greek/Skythian troops along the coast of the Black Sea. They also have a decent but not overpowering ecomomy, provided you take the provinces to build ports and mines. So they can beat anyone, but they don't just roll over them.

They also have dangerous enemies, especially Macedon and Rome. This adds up to a fun early to middle game for the experienced player: plenty of battles, and some nasty surprises you'll have to cope with.

But they don't have a wide factional recruiting zone or the tech for big empires, so it gets a bit miserable once you've squished all the Greeks. If you invade Italy it will be over a 3-4 year supply line on dirt roads, unless you build local armies closer to the front and a navy to ship them.


Pontos:

Best faction for the hardcore player. They have a really mixed miltary with loads of local units, so good logistics are a must. Like the Getai, their miltary is good enough to win battles but not so good that it's a stroll.

You'll have the terrifying Arche Seleukia trying to grind you to dust. That's pretty much what it's about: staying alive and getting an empire together. You can try expanding around/over the Black Sea to get a safe hinterland away from teh AS, or you can go for the throat and try to drive them out of Asia Minor.

I think Pontos is one of the factions that are more incomplete, and they're due for a big update in the next release, so I'd be inclined to save them for later.


Ptolemies:

War with the AS is the central fact of your existence, and those guys don't understand diplomacy so you basically have to conquer them then decide what to do next.

The Ptolies are rich and their military is pretty good, one of the best, a standard successor miltary with an added dash of Galatians. If you weren't up against the AS it might be too easy. They seem like the only eastern player faction that will beat the AS with default EB finances. [The balancing minimod which reduces money and merc availability might alter that.]


Sarmatians, Saka Rauka:

Horses, horses, horses and bows, bows, bows. Their combat gets repetetive after a while. Using cavalry in siege warfare can get quite frustrating, or you can develop a taste for it.

They don't have the government/technology to amount to anything in the long run. I suggerst playing them to try out the horse archer thing, then quitting once you've got the hang of it.


Hayasdan:

Free Cataphracts on turn one! Decent missile troops. The rest is cannon fodder until you build your high end troops, which are OK but not brilliant.

You are nextdoor to the AS who will try to obliterate you, so I suspect this faction that will benefit from the balancing minimod more than most.

With their tech tree, the Hayasdan will never amount to much on the global scale. But they're more fun than many in a shorter game, with varied (and extremely dangerous) rivals and an unusual miltary to fight them.

One of the best games I've had was migrating the Hayasdan to the north shore of the Black Sea, where I mixed their Cataphract generals with local Skythian horse archers and Greek hoplites.

[Olaf The Great]

Luso is super fun woo! :P

Anyway..you get the BEST military in the whole game.
They have skirmisher,light, medium, heavy and CATAPHRACT calvary, Balearic's, Skirmishers, a solid spear, shield, and javelin army, "commando" flankers (Caetra), line swordsman(the loricata Scutari aka "Iberian legionaries", and the infamous... the terrifying...the awesome...the LOLPWN infantry...the Vasci Dosidataskeli...they have more stamina, ambushing tactics, armor, etc than their Silver counterparts :P.

Also, once they get Emporion and such they can get hoplite mercs, which can be a huge culture shock to Gauls.

Almost all of the Iberian infantry(especialy Scormataova and Gestikaipon) have about 20 javelins, a huge amount even compared to static skirmishers.

And even Iovamann look uber :P


On the building side they, like other barbie-dolls suffer...with their "minor" cities made out of pink plastic. However Iberia is a good mining center, and can bring in alot of money.


Dunno if they can build Roads however.



PS:Where can I recruit the Dosidataskeli

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well, IF you happen to know that V's; W's and B's enjoy to trade places in linguistics, I think you can guess it now?

If you wan't a fun game, and just don't want to see lot's of well-known Eastern/Greek crappy units on your road to conquest -> the Aedui or Arverni are all yours. Economy is decent, but you really shouldn't overextend yourself.

Another fun faction is the Casse, but you need to have a bit of patience to really enjoy them. As soon as you've managed to take all of Brittain you've got an economy unlike anything else in the North & West. You've got plenty of sea trade possibilities, you've got fellow Celtice allies (Aedui and Arverni), and your military is pretty unique. (With all those sweet Champion units.)

[Thaatu]

Aedui/Arvernii are great, but they may get a little tiresome by 200 BCE, depending on your expansion. My turn in 202 BCE takes about an hour, and that's roughly the same area as shown on the faction progress thread. The best thing about them are the generals. They gain awesome traits and can become real heroes. Plus, they have lots of province specific units.

[Azazel]

IMO, the silver Death is highly overrated. I gave them over a million in money via the console and all I did was fight stack after stack of low leveled millita infantry (really annoying) and rarely any high level elite phalangites. Even when I did fight the elite phalangites, it was too few, and the AI mixed them with crappy merc infantry.

Oh, I've had the opportunity to be hammered with nonstop AS armies, in my grand Makedon campaign, with like 5-7 elite phalangites. And to make it worse, the Ptolemaios and AS totally ignore each other in my game so the AS are all directed at me......or it seems lol. I think they might even have acquired a ceasefire. It also doesn't help that my diplomacy went to hell and I'm at war with Rome, Carthage, and AS all at the same time, fighting on 3 fronts.

So far, my favorite campaign has been Makedonian. They're really fun to roleplay as, trying to conquer and regain the lands that the Makedonian rightfully own. har har. At some point I guess I should take Alexandreia... The units are easy to use and powerful, but nothing really too colorful. Also, like it's been said earlier, Makedon is a good faction if you want a large empire.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Makedonia, if you haven't attacked Sparta and struck at Pyhhros by turn 2 you're in deep doo-doo.

[mlp071]

[The balancing minimod which reduces money and merc availability might alter that.]

Actually, all 3 types (RP, Balanced , Challenge) of Balancing money mod are giving AI more money then default EB script.

The difference is how is money distributed and balanced with amounts of mercenaries to prevent "infinite" stacks and regulate AI's army and economy growth rate

As for faction fun , it all depends what way of combating you preffer.I thought that i would have boring time trying Lusotannan, but it turns out that they were one of the most enjoyable factions to play, for example.

[KuKulzA]

personally I like variety, and I like hit and run, fast, decisive, and brutal warfare. I find that the Saka Rauka, the Getai, and the Lusotanna are very fun. But the Saka can be very hard to play with... think like a nomad, get your mnaii from exterminating opposing cities. You start out with a bunch of (expensive upkeep) but veteran horsemen... if you carefully rain arrows at the right angles and then charge when they are turned or weak... you'll do great....

and later on with the Saka heavy hoplites, agema, and Hindus longbowmen, after you've conquered about everything in the east... you'll have the infantry (from your vassals) to compete with rising western powers and if your careful, been able to retain a super veteran chevron golden army of horsemen...

but one mess up, like say attacking Bactria and failing could get your yurts on fire...

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Makedonia is great. Great cavalry, great infantry, great elites, great auxiliar troops...

Just finish the KH off early in the south, disband your ships (you don't need them anyway at this point), and then kill Pyrrhos. Hint: direct all your missile firepower towards the elephants, and his army at Pella is done.

And then... rule the world, it's rightfully your property!

[gran_guitarra]

early game Macedonia, really really challenging, no cheating at all, its horrible lol, if you dont send your main army up to pella then Pyrrhos will take Pella, if you do, the KH will attack demetrias. blah, I've had quite a few heroic barely won victories in pella with like 500 men vs Phyros's huge stack filled with professional soldiers and elephants.

No you don't. The trick is to conquer the Koinon Hellenon in the first two turns with as few casualties as possible. THe way to do this is simple. First reinforce the army near Athens as much as possible, and move units up to Pella till its *barely* able to beat Pyrrhos with great/incredible generalship.
Now use the big army to siege Athens and then move one unit from Chalkis to siege Athens. THe KH will attack the single unit, and if you are good enough you can take them out with the army while taking few or no casualties. Repeat the process for Sparta (you might have to storm it). Once that is done leave the most minimal garrison there and head up to smash Pyrrhos's army.
With a full stack of Makedonian troops you should be able to defeat him and take both the cities on the Mainland, if you are lucky the one in Italy as well, and then you can just leave the stack or part of it in Tarentum to protect it, while you build up economically/territorially. I used this strategy against Pyrrhos, and only had to fight five battles myself (the four cities in Greece and Pyrrhos himself).

Once Tarentum is protected simply conquer everything in Illyria, the Galatian provinces, and the Getic Auxiliary ones (the ones with Pestalts and Assault infantry are most desireable).

[Intranetusa]

^ thanks for the input

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No you don't. The trick is to conquer the Koinon Hellenon in the first two turns with as few casualties as possible. THe way to do this is simple. First reinforce the army near Athens as much as possible, and move units up to Pella till its *barely* able to beat Pyrrhos with great/incredible generalship.
Now use the big army to siege Athens and then move one unit from Chalkis to siege Athens. THe KH will attack the single unit, and if you are good enough you can take them out with the army while taking few or no casualties. Repeat the process for Sparta (you might have to storm it). Once that is done leave the most minimal garrison there and head up to smash Pyrrhos's army.
With a full stack of Makedonian troops you should be able to defeat him and take both the cities on the Mainland, if you are lucky the one in Italy as well, and then you can just leave the stack or part of it in Tarentum to protect it, while you build up economically/territorially. I used this strategy against Pyrrhos, and only had to fight five battles myself (the four cities in Greece and Pyrrhos himself).

Once Tarentum is protected simply conquer everything in Illyria, the Galatian provinces, and the Getic Auxiliary ones (the ones with Pestalts and Assault infantry are most desireable).

Wrong, go for Sparta first, it has wooden walls and is an easy nut to crack in an assault. With Sparta destroyed you will never face new Spartans and Athens in issolated. In turn 2 you place your army on the Isthmus after storming Sparta, with a little luck the KH's reformed field army will attack you and you should be able to beat it fairly easily. At this point Southern Greece is yours. At the same time move all of Demetrias' garrison to Pella except the general. In turn 2 that stack should be able to beat Pyrrhos provided you use your javalins on his elephants before they reach your lines.

Then it's in with the phalanx, lock horns and send the general and the Thessalians around the back.

Easy-peasy.

[Lusitan]

Lusitans are great fun, a very complete faction with a varied unit choice and a clear goal: to unite the peninsula.

Problem is it can get really boring after you achieve it. Expanding into North Africa just doesn't feel right, and neither does anexing Gaul (albeit runing raids does feel good).

[gran_guitarra]

Wrong, go for Sparta first, it has wooden walls and is an easy nut to crack in an assault. With Sparta destroyed you will never face new Spartans and Athens in issolated. In turn 2 you place your army on the Isthmus after storming Sparta, with a little luck the KH's reformed field army will attack you and you should be able to beat it fairly easily. At this point Southern Greece is yours. At the same time move all of Demetrias' garrison to Pella except the general. In turn 2 that stack should be able to beat Pyrrhos provided you use your javalins on his elephants before they reach your lines.

Then it's in with the phalanx, lock horns and send the general and the Thessalians around the back.

Easy-peasy.

Sparta is easier to take, in an assault, but you need more time for that (at least 2 turns for Sparta, the KH army, if it doesn't attack you, and then a few more for Athens. Plus, your strategy requires the player to rely on AI stupidity, which you can't always count on. With mine you get Athens by turn 2 (you capture it on the KH turn), and Sparta by turn 3 (capture it on that turn), at which point you can probably get a full stack with a general or two to fight Pyrrhos, and take both the cities on Greece. Then if the Romans haven't beaten you to the punch you can just take control of Tarentum and conquer your deadliest rivals (at that point in the game), and move on with a secure rear.

[Rundownloser]

I prefer to leave Tarentum to Eprius. I can usually secure a peace deal and trade rights (very lucrative) from them after they're out of Greece. In addition, they generally turn their attention on Rome after that, slowing Rome's expansion for many years (all the longer I don't have to deal with their seemingly limitless resources). In my most recent Macedonian campaign, Epirus took Capua, Rhegion, Messana, Arpi, Roma, and Arretium before Rome's Aedui and Carthaginian allies launched a two pronged attack and silenced Pyrrhus's misbegotten progeny. Gave me a lotta time to prepare an invasion force.

[Morte66]

Lusitans are great fun, a very complete faction with a varied unit choice and a clear goal: to unite the peninsula.

Problem is it can get really boring after you achieve it. Expanding into North Africa just doesn't feel right, and neither does anexing Gaul (albeit runing raids does feel good).

With a faction like that, I prefer to do what "feels right" (i.e unite the peninsula and build a rich and secure position) then stop. Ignore the victory conditions stated in the game, just do what's right for your people.

Then maybe break some Gallic heads if it's fun... ;)

This will give you long enough to experience the miltary gameplay, without getting into the grind of long distance conquest and assimilation over dirt roads.

[Morte66]

I prefer to leave Tarentum to Eprius. I can usually secure a peace deal and trade rights (very lucrative) from them after they're out of Greece.

Definitely. On a similar principle, if you're playing Epeiros/KH/Getae and you kick the Macedonians out of the Greek peninsula but the faction survives in Asia Minor, leave them there as a buffer against the Seleucids.

[Tellos Athenaios]

With a faction like that, I prefer to do what "feels right" (i.e unite the peninsula and build a rich and secure position) then stop. Ignore the victory conditions stated in the game, just do what's right for your people.

I always ignore the VC's anyway - prefering to adapt my strategy to the way the diplomacy is set; and gaining as much lucrative trade zones as possible without stretching supply lines.

The AS is, IMO one of the better factions for Empire Building purposes and it certainly has one of the most varied unit rosters. It will also require you to use multiple styles of generalship. (You'll see entirely different types of troops in the East than in the West) Plus all the regionals of course.

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

I like the Sweboz, personally. They start off with a single province, and some fair generalship will have you three more in the first 4 turns. But what I like is that they're rolling in cash after you get settled in, and you don't border anybody for quite a while. Neither of the Gallic factions seem interested in going your way (damn straight!), so you're nice and isolated to do your own thing. Spread yourself out, discover the variety of units and how to use them, and stockpile loads of cash for that inevitable bitchfight with the dominant Gallic faction. I love the variety and effectiveness of light infantry. The warband units are all different (one can do shield wall, one can do war cry, some are better at defense and some are better at attack), and I like the Skandza-Swaiut personally. Good meatshield, lowers morale and has pretty fair stats. You also have access to some anti-armor honeys that come into use later, such as the Klumbokarlaz and two kinds of axemen. Then there's the aesthetic point that the Germans are just awesome; fearsome forest savages thing...

I've tried the Lusotanna, but I'm too impatient to deal with the debt they start right into to continue too far.

I also love the Carthies. Nothing is quite as satisfying as slowly creeping your way up the Italian Peninsula to finally have Rome in your hands, except for seeing Rome converted to the Carthaginian city model.

[Andronikos]

I have played only for Makedonia and Aedui (do not have time) and both are great. But there are 18 another factions I want to try