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Thread: Forced March

  1. #1

    Default Forced March

    So Several traits and drillmaster ancillary allow your general to move farther and to "force march" his troops. However, it appears that only the general himself gets the movement bonus and if he has an army with him it cannot move any faster than any other army. Am I missing something or is this broken? Why are my troops getting a morale penalty from their drillmaster trait general when he is not making them do anything more than normal?

    If this has been answered elsewhere i apologize, searched and couldn't find it.

  2. #2
    Cynic Senior Member sapi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forced March

    Just a guess, but you might be getting this impression from the fact that the general, as a cavalry unit, can always move further than the combined cav/infrantry units in his army.

    The best way to test this for sure would be to note the movement distance of units with the general in the stack, then remove him from it and recheck.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Forced March

    that's no it, I got the same issue. when the general is alone, he can travel faster then any other unit (incl cavalry) with the "forced march" ability, but if he got even one unit, this doesn't apply anymore
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  4. #4
    Cynic Senior Member sapi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forced March

    That is not, however, the fair way to test it.

    The only fair way to test whether this works or not is to compare the movement distance of the cavalry with and without the general; not the general with and without the cavalry.
    From wise men, O Lord, protect us -anon
    The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of millions, a statistic -Stalin
    We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area -UK military spokesman Major Mike Shearer

  5. #5

    Default Re: Forced March

    same thing there, no change in movement speed
    "Screw you guys, I'm going home..."
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Forced March

    It seems a pointless trait. The army should move faster. Maybe Kingdoms fixes it.

  7. #7

    Default AW: Forced March

    As far as I know it works only if the other units have been in the general┤s stack since the beginning of the turn.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Forced March

    The way i am drawing my conclusion was i had a city with a garrison in it including multiple generals, one with the trait one without. The trait general could move farther than his brother, each by himself. Then I moved the trait general out of the city with a few units. Some other units without a general went along the same path and could move just as far. And I know that cav can move farther than inf can move father than arty, that wasn't it.

  9. #9
    Nolan Bushnell Cultist Member ataribaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: Forced March

    Quote Originally Posted by Haudegen
    As far as I know it works only if the other units have been in the general┤s stack since the beginning of the turn.
    I'd concur with that. Your Drillmaster general needs to be outside a settlement with a stack of units at the beginning of the turn in order for the trait to increase the movement of those units.

  10. #10

    Default Re: AW: Forced March

    Also remember that IIRC the forced march only adds like 10-15% movement. Say a general moves 10 spaces in a given turn, you're getting 1-2 extra "steps" depending on how they round. I would assume a 1.5 "step" bonus would be rounded up and applied as 2.

    So you're not going to be moving 1/5 of the map each turn vs their normal rate or anything. I don't know if they've been worked out, but I agree with Sapi that Riese and Ole were taking a completely incorrect methodology.

    Units are going to affect the movement speed of a general, with or without the trait. what you are saying is that because the general can move further without the units, the units movement points are not increased by the general's trait.. That's like saying because a Ferrari can out-accellerate the Queen Elizabeth 2, the Ferrari must have more horsepower.

    If you want to test how the general's trait affects units movement, you have to test THAT! That is, instead of testing the general's movement alone vs with units to determine how the units are affected, you should instead test the UNITS movement alone vs with the general.

    1. Start a group at Caen, with a general who does NOT have drillmaster
    2. Save game
    3. March group to someplace distant - Grenada, Constantinople, Jerusalem - the farther the better really, although it shouldn't take too far to see the difference truthfully, if there is one. Better if you go only in your own territory, so you don't have to worry about forced detours due to AI armies. See how many turns and how much movement if any is left when they arrive.
    4. Load save game.
    5. Give general drillmaster.
    6. March to the same place. Again, see how many turns and how much movement if any is left when they arrive.

    Was there a difference? If yes, you have just seen drillmaster at work. If no, then must be broken. I'd not pick anywhere that is closer than 7-8 turns just to make sure that the 10-15% is enough difference to be apparent. With somewhere 2-3 turns away it might not be a big enough difference.

    Scientific Method FTW!

  11. #11
    Prince Louis of France (KotF) Member Ramses II CP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forced March

    You don't actually have to make them march the whole distance, of course, because their path changes colors for how many turns it takes. Starting one click south of Caen (Not in the city, as per above), send the army to Zaragosa and see what the color progression looks like. Then add the general (And due to concerns stated above, pass a turn with no movement) and click to Zaragosa with him in the stack. Check the color progression to see how many turns it will take. I would expect the difference to be more noticeable with an all cavalry stack.

    Later tonight I'll check my old England game to see if I have a general around with the trait, and try to take some screenshots.

  12. #12
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forced March

    1. Just have a mixed (various troops) stack lead by a "forced march" general.
    2. Let the stack 'sit' for one turn to make sure everyone is in the stack at the beginning of the next turn.
    3. Check and note the movement distance with the general in the stack.
    4. Remove the general and check and note the movement distance for the remaining stack.

    If there is difference between 3 and 4: forced march was in effect for the whole stack. If there is no difference: alas, the feature is bugged. Unfortunately, I cannot test right now.

  13. #13
    Prince Louis of France (KotF) Member Ramses II CP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forced March

    It works, and with a 25% bonus general it's obvious enough just from the movement area. Screenshots under the spoiler tag:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Cavalry before the General is added:



    Cavalry after the General is added and a turn passes:



    Infantry before the General:



    Infantry after the General is added:



    Ramses II

  14. #14
    {GrailKnights} Member hoetje's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forced March

    Seems clear it works then ;)
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    -Verba volant , scripta manent

  15. #15
    Cynic Senior Member sapi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Forced March

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramses II CP
    It works, and with a 25% bonus general it's obvious enough just from the movement area. Screenshots under the spoiler tag:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Cavalry before the General is added:



    Cavalry after the General is added and a turn passes:



    Infantry before the General:



    Infantry after the General is added:



    Ramses II
    nice
    From wise men, O Lord, protect us -anon
    The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of millions, a statistic -Stalin
    We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area -UK military spokesman Major Mike Shearer

  16. #16

    Default Re: Forced March

    Thanks for the tests and screens, excellent work.
    The Ferrari comment was way off base, my logic was sound. After another test I found my problem:

    I started new game as Russia, Mikhail is Energetic (+15% move). Using my old test i moved one of the archers out of his stack as far as possible. Then I moved Mik + another archer, but they could move no further than the lone archer so I figured forced march didn't work.
    Using a new test: Move Mik plus one of his archers out of a stack as far as possible. End Turn. Move another archer from the original stack, he cannot catch up to the general+archer.

    Conclusion: All the units in a generals stack at the start of a turn get the bonus, even if the general does not move with them. My old test assumed this was false and was therefore flawed, not because I thought a foot unit could march as far as my general.

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