Samsung or Viewsonic 22" monitor

[Beirut]

I'm off very soon to get a new 22" widescreen monitor, and though I'm very partial to Viewsonics, there are many here who sing the praises of Samsung. If anyone has any thoughts, I'm happy to hear them.

For what it's worth, I'm very happy with my Viewsonic VX922 19" screen. But I want a widescreen for my flightsims and definitely want the higher res as my VX922 is limited to 1280x1024.

(I can't afford the 24" Viewsonic widescreen, which is what I would like to get. Just too $$$)

[Lemur]

Here are the NewEgg reviews for the Samsung, and here are the reviews for the ViewSonic. They both get overwhelming thumbs-up from the geeks.

It's worth nothing that the ViewSonic also won the "Customer Choice Award," FWIW. Both brands are fantastic, and I expect you'd be well-served by either.

[Beirut]

Well, this is going to be a short thread. Just got back from the store. Picked up a Samsung 24" 245BW Widescreen for a decent price. The freaking thing is huge. Was looking at the Viewsonics, but only the 22" models were available and they all had built in speakers, which I didn't want. The 24" Samsung was "only" $110 more so I figured "what the heck".

The screen is very bright, very clear, and no dead pixels. Res goes up to 1920x1200. Can't wait to get into the flightsims with this baby. It's going to be great.

Toys are good.

[Lemur]

Hope you've got the graphics horsepower to drive that thing ...

[Beirut]

Hope you've got the graphics horsepower to drive that thing ...

I've got an E6700 and an 8800GTS 640MB. That should do well enough. That's one of the reasons I was getting antsy with the 1280x1024 max res on my 19" VX922. My old Hansol 19" CRT got 1600x1200 and it looked great, I really missed it when I switched to the Viewsonic LCD.

Mind you, if it doesn't do well enough, my Asus MB will take another 8800 card SLI, assuming I can afford it, which right this minute I assure you I cannot.

[Xiahou]

That was always my biggest hesitation with getting a large-screen LCD. IMO, they look just awful if you can't run them at max resolution. I happily "settled" for a 19" Samsung with a 1280x1024 native res. That res usually gives me enough breathing room to turn up all the pretty and AA/AF. Of course, the real bottle-neck on my current system is probably my CPU...

Regardless, enjoy your new toy Beirut.

[sapi]

Well, this is going to be a short thread. Just got back from the store. Picked up a Samsung 24" 245BW Widescreen for a decent price. The freaking thing is huge. Was looking at the Viewsonics, but only the 22" models were available and they all had built in speakers, which I didn't want. The 24" Samsung was "only" $110 more so I figured "what the heck".

The screen is very bright, very clear, and no dead pixels. Res goes up to 1920x1200. Can't wait to get into the flightsims with this baby. It's going to be great.

Toys are good.

Nice

I was going to say that the viewsonic is a good monitor, despite the useless speakers (I use one myself); but going to 24" is a whole new level...I hear

Have fun playing with your new toy

[Husar]

Sounds very nice, but I'm still not sure how well widescreens do when reading webpages and when their resolution is not supported, you should be able to tell your drivers to put black bars to the left and to the right then, but does it work? Currently I still have my 17" LCD with 1280x1024, suits me just fine, but a widescreen would be nice as well and my sister could use a new one.

[TinCow]

I just bought two of the Samsung 22" widescreens a few days ago. I've always been very happy with Samsung monitors of all kinds, and I do not expect to be disappointed with these ones.

[sapi]

Sounds very nice, but I'm still not sure how well widescreens do when reading webpages and when their resolution is not supported, you should be able to tell your drivers to put black bars to the left and to the right then, but does it work? Currently I still have my 17" LCD with 1280x1024, suits me just fine, but a widescreen would be nice as well and my sister could use a new one.

Most websites support widescreen fully, and even those that do not aren't that big a pain.

[Spino]

Stay away from the current batch of Viewsonic 22" LCDs. For some reason Viewsonic has sacrificed its reputation for quality this round in order to cash in on the massive profit margins that typify LCDs made using a TN screen. I bought a Viewsonic 22" VX2235 late last year and regretted the purchase after a few weeks. Sure it sported a 22" widescreen format and blazing response times but the stand sucked, it had lousy backlight bleeding, default colors were way off (talk about a blue shift!), the brightness and contrast levels were really hard to tweak properly and to add insult to injury, the anti-glare coating had these tiny holes in it that made the screen seem like it had dried spittle or liquid on it. A few months later I returned my Viewsonic to Costco when the HP W2207 hit the market. The W2207 runs circles around my old VX2235 and just about every other 22" LCD on the market right now. Brilliant colors, excellent default brightness/contrast settings, minimal backlight bleed (like night and day compared to the Viewsonic), fast response time, fully adjustable and 180 degree rotating capable stand, two USB ports, glossy screen. It's a no brainer.

If you're not keen on the HP W2207 then consider the Samsung 226BW. But most people I know of who were intent on getting a 226BW that took a good look at the W2207 opted for the latter. I was certainly one of them.

[Proletariat]

I got that same monitor a month or so ago, Beirut. Love it so far, even for watching movies and so on. I have older hardware than you (7950gt, +3000 amd, 1gig ram) and it's been fine, but then again, I haven't bothered pushing it with any cutting edge games or anything.

[Beirut]

So far the screen is looking very good. Except for what looks like two dead pixels at the extreme right of the screen, dead center. I can live with that.

Flying is great at 1920x1200. The immersion factor really jumps up when the runways look almost life size. Need to play with the res a bit on different sims but that's part of the joys of technology I guess, fiddling around. Not taking much of a hit on the FPS at high res. Things are still flowing smoothly. And brightly, the default screen brightness is startling.

Almost all web pages stretch out to the res and look fine. They just look... wider.

So far, with about four hours on the screen, I like it.

[Papewaio]

So far the screen is looking very good. Except for what looks like two dead pixels at the extreme right of the screen, dead center. I can live with that.

Does it have a dead pixel replacement policy? If so use it.

The Samsung 19" monitors we use at work (11 monitors between four of us) all have the dead pixel replacement policy...

Still I'm green, I'd love to get a widescreen LCD for watching widescreen movies...

[sapi]

Definitely take advantage of the dead pixel replacement policy if possible

[Beirut]

I think they're dead pixels. As I mentioned, they are at the extreme right of the screen, on the very last line.

I wonder if it's worth returning it. It's only noticeable because I noticed it initially (and if that isn't the stupidest thing you've ever read) but It doesn't bother me when I'm using the screen. Also, I don't want to return the screen, which is a sixty-mile round trip, and then bring home another screen that has a dead pixel dead center. That would drive me nuts.

As someone once wrote in a tech magazine, with millions of pixels on a screen (2,300,000 on this one), odds are there's going to be at least one that gives up the ghost. Honestly, I'm not sure if that's reasonble or not. In any case, I have another 28 days to return the screen. If I get another dead pixel anywhere else, I will certianly return it, but for now I'm very happy with it.

[Spino]

I think they're dead pixels. As I mentioned, they are at the extreme right of the screen, on the very last line.

I wonder if it's worth returning it. It's only noticeable because I noticed it initially (and if that isn't the stupidest thing you've ever read) but It doesn't bother me when I'm using the screen. Also, I don't want to return the screen, which is a sixty-mile round trip, and then bring home another screen that has a dead pixel dead center. That would drive me nuts.

As someone once wrote in a tech magazine, with millions of pixels on a screen (2,300,000 on this one), odds are there's going to be at least one that gives up the ghost. Honestly, I'm not sure if that's reasonble or not. In any case, I have another 28 days to return the screen. If I get another dead pixel anywhere else, I will certianly return it, but for now I'm very happy with it.

Dead pixels, even at the extreme edges of the screen, would drive me nuts. My vote would be to return that monitor for a defect free one. Would you settle for a Ferrari with a hairline crack in the windshield? Don't cheat yourself out of a pixel free gaming experience.

[Husar]

I have a weird pixel or two in the lower right corner and if you wouldn't bring the topic up I wouldn't think about it or notice it. Really doesn't matter, though if it was a black dot right in the center, I'd have returned the screen.

[sapi]

@Husar and others: you can check for a dead pixel, rather than dirt, using a tool such as this

Run the time cycle, and carefully check the screen for any place where it is not an absolutely uniform colour.

If, for example, you've got black dots on the green colour slide, you've got a dead pixel

I'd say get it replaced if at all possible; and if you do, ask to see the monitor in the shop, and run such a program on it. No need to make the round trip multiple times

[Lemur]

Sapi, you should post that applet into the Freeware and Open Source thread. Whenever I am loading up a new PC, that thread is a blessed resource.

[sapi]

Done

[Husar]

@Husar and others: you can check for a dead pixel, rather than dirt, using a tool such as this

Run the time cycle, and carefully check the screen for any place where it is not an absolutely uniform colour.

I actually emulated such a program myself in Corel Photopaint, by showing a unicolour picture in full screen mode. And some of my dead pixels are only dead concerning a certain colour, with other colours they work fine, but you don't notice it except if you look closely and know what to look for in this case. I usually forget about it completely until a topic like this one comes up.
Oh, and I already noticed that dirt can make it look like there's a dead pixel, always check for dirt before returning the thing.

Alsonote that there are pixel error classes and most monitors are class two, which means no guarantee unless a certain number of pixels are dead or false(there is more than a dead pixel, can also be a dead subpixel etc), only class 1 allows no dead pixels, but it can be hard to find an affordable monitor rated class 1, IIRC Phillips has some oh and here is a list of others.

[sapi]

Yeah - while technically you can get away with returning a monitor with any number of dead pixels (there's a clause in the regulation guidelines, here at least, that a product sold has to be equal to or better than the one on display; and if that one has no dead pixels they're obliged to provide one with none) - but it's much easier just to stay within the manufacturer guidlines, which is usually a couple, returned within a month.

[TinCow]

Both of my 226BW 22" arrive today and now I'm all neverous about dead pixels. The following doesn't reassure me either:

Newegg.com sells many products such as Notebooks and Monitors that feature LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) screens. Newegg.com adheres to the dead-pixel policy that is observed by the majority of our manufacturers. In order to declare any product with an LCD screen "defective" and eligible for replacement or refund through any applicable Newegg.com Return Policy, there must be a minimum of 8 (eight) dead LCD pixels.

That means that if I have 7 dead pixels on each, I'm screwed. 7 seems to be a rather huge number, especially if they're in the middle of the screen.

*crosses fingers, toes, eyes, hair, arms, legs, ...*

[edit] Samsung's warranty is even worse:

The minimum number of defective pixels we allow before we will replace an in warranty monitor is as follows:

* For a 15" Monitor - 7 or more bad pixels
* For 17" and 19" Monitors -10 or more bad pixels
* For 21" - 24" Monitors - 17 or more bad pixels.

For questions or the replacement procedure, please contact our Customer Care Center at 1-800-SAMSUNG (1-800-726-7864).

[Husar]

The german wiki entry has a table which says class 2 allows for two dead pixels or 5 dead subpixels per million pixels, if a monitor is stated as a class 2 concerning dead pixels, you should be able to return it if you have two or more per million pixels, though it differentiates between white and black dead pixels, maybe maximum of two per each type. If it's just dead subpixels well, five per million pixels are allowed, but I think they're not as bad as a completely black or white dot anyway, my guess is that I have some bad subpixels but like I said, you hardly notice them anyway, depending on where and how many they are.

8 dead pixels sounds like a whole lot, especially if they mean 8 complete pixels and not subpixels. Then again, we have a new law here saying you can return any online purchase within 2 weeks without giving a reason, haven't tried it yet, though. It's really one of the worst things about buying TFTs, I guess most of them are fine, but if you get one with dead pixels in the center or something, that has to be very annoying.

[TinCow]

Here's more from Samsung:

Since a 15 inch LCD display contains 2,359,296 pixels, a19 inch LCD display contains 3,932,160 pixels, and a 24 inch LCD display contains 6,912,000 pixels, having a few "bad" pixels is not considered a defect. It is rare for a monitor to ship with or develop bad pixels. If or when a bad pixel occurs, it is not an indication that more will occur. It is usually a solitary incident.

By these stats, I would estimate that a 22" has about 6 million pixels, which by the class 2 standard is still 12 dead pixels before return.

[Husar]

The numbers you quote are subpixels, if you just take 1280*1024 that's 1,310,720 pixels, multiplied by three subpixels you get the 3,932,160 for a 19" your quote mentions.

1920*1200 makes 2,304,000 pixels, which means around 5 complete dead pixels or 12 dead subpixels. Still less than 8 dead pixels it seems. If you want no dead pixels, you will have to go for one of the manufacturers who offer monitors with such no-dead-pixel-policies like you can find in the link above.

Why Samsung apparently calls subpixels pixels is beyond me, maybe they want to fool you, or they just know better than I do, but my monitor resolution is still 1280*1024 and not 2200*1788 or something, which would be close to the 3,932,160 pixels they mention.

[TinCow]

Thanks for the info. That also makes the Samsung warranty more reasonable, since that means they require only 12 dead subpixels before return in comparison to the 30 dead subpixels required under "class 2."

[Husar]

Thanks for the info. That also makes the Samsung warranty more reasonable, since that means they require only 12 dead subpixels before return in comparison to the 30 dead subpixels required under "class 2."

I actually meant that according to the class 2 description, you can return any monitor with 1920*1200 resolution if you can find 12 dead subpixels or 5 dead pixels. whether the Newegg warranty is better or worse depends on whether they mean 8 pixels or 8 subpixels.

Apparently Samsung calls subpixels pixels which confuses me a bit since subpixels only have one colour while a pixel consists of three subpixels and can thus have any colour the monitor can display. Now if they offer a return for 12 subpixels on a 1920*1200 resolution monitor, they're just average I guess.

And I don't know how dead pixels are tested or to what degree companies have to stick to those class destinctions concerning return policy, might even vary from country to country, maybe even from shop to shop. If you want to be sure, look for a monitor where the manufacturer promises some zero-dead-pixels policy, they're usually the expensive models though.

[Beirut]

I'm inclined to keep my monitor. But if I change my mind, the store will take it back within 30 days, no questions asked. I've spent a lot of money there and I'll raise Holy Hell if they backtalk me with cheese-flavoured gobbledeegook.